Seniority and respect

[Tone]

Im going to open with the fact that most experienced Medics have earned my complete respect.

After I posted my first thread, some people apparently felt that I might have too much attitude, and not enough respect for them. Some guy even wrote this in my visitor messages:

"A great percentage of us are "seasoned veterans" (we don't demand bowing and scraping, but we don't have time for scat talking newbies either), and everyone else deserves a modicum of respect. "

All you old people who demand respect based simply on number of years are a joke. These same people expect repeated and immature reflections of this 'respect' Most of you are just trying to feel what little resemblance of power you can. I know, it must be hard to be an overweight 45 year old who's wife wont let him buy a new barbeque without consulting her first. On the inside I am laughing at you all day, and probably laughing at you to your face without you knowing.

It could be because you feel you have done a great deed for society in saving and improving many lives that you feel I am below you. If you are like some of the old people I have worked with, you have CAUSED the death of more people than you ever defibrillated. Your old-school techniques such as not cleaning the stretcher with Viru-san every call spread more Death through MRSA and C-DIFF than you have ever saved.

Get to the gym, talk things over with your wife, and stop expecting me to write my name in the #2 spot on the run sheet even if I am filling it out first.

 

[DaniGrrl]

Do you know that come off sounding like a:

A male donkey; A foolish or stupid person; An inappropriately rude or obnoxious person; To behave very obnoxiously?

Just wondering.

 

[mycrofft]

Tone, some stylistic points.

1. Only a crackhead or a kid comes into a forum calling the established participants "you dorks". Maybe ok with your peers, I remember such banter when I was a firefighter about the time they invented water, but, to coin a phrase "you don't know me".*

2. You had a good point about substance abuse amongst EMS workers, and your post's "edge" drew lots of activity, but there's a sharp and fine divide between being clever and being a jerk.

Pleae keep posting, just respect the forum a little more.

* Doesn't mean I'm not a dork, but being referred to as an artificial male reproductive member is a little off-putting. Maybe especially to our female cohorts.

 

[EMS49393]

You have to show respect to get respect and so far you have shown little more then complete disrespect to any forum members, not just the senior ones.

If you're major concern is being second on a run sheet you have some big issues. I'm always second on the ticket because I'm the paramedic and our drivers are listed first. It never bothered me, but then again I'm not suffering from some severe inferiority complex and assorted insecurities.

 

[Sasha]

Hey, let's be fair and post the ENTIRE message. The message had been a service to you by our lovely resident dementia patient, mycrofft. He was trying to be nice to you, and to help you fit into the forum.

HI Tone.
Don't be discouraged, but knowing your audience is necessary to fit into/get along with even a confrontational forum like this one.

A great percentage of us are "seasoned veterans" (we don't demand bowing and scraping, but we don't have time for scat talking newbies either), and everyone else deserves a modicum of respect. The "dork" thing was not the best first step...but press on, it's a "big tent", room for lots of folks.

You want respect? Act like you deserve it. And from your posts, you don't! You don't get respect not because of seasoned veterans but because you're behaving like a jerk!

 

[emt seeking first job]

Having no ems experience, but, having LEO and private investigation experience, it is best to treat everyone with respect, veteran and noob, even if it is not offered, you never go wrong with diplomacy.

If someone should not have his or her position, it is never up to one person to act on that.

 

[akflightmedic]

By copying only the words you wanted to shift the argument to your point of view was extremely disrespectful to the person who tried to share with you and us, the other members of the forum.

It was dishonest, unethical, and an insult to our intelligence.

How ever do you expect to get any respect with that kind of behavior?

You owe the person who was being very kind and trying to help an apology. You should apologize to all of us as well, because you deceived or attempted to deceive us all.

 

[Tone]

So defensive!


In all fairness when I re-read my post I realized that it could be interpreted as If I am referring to you people directly. I intended to be writing it ABOUT a few people I have worked with, just using that tense as some artistic license.

Unless I struck a nerve?

 

[Tone]

You have to show respect to get respect and so far you have shown little more then complete disrespect to any forum members, not just the senior ones.

Im not on here looking for your respect, and I haven't posted anything that makes reference to that.

If you're major concern is being second on a run sheet you have some big issues. I'm always second on the ticket because I'm the paramedic and our drivers are listed first. It never bothered me, but then again I'm not suffering from some severe inferiority complex and assorted insecurities.

My point was that I have senior staff INSISTING they must have their name in the #1 spot on the run sheet! Both spots mean exactly the same, I could care less! I do not care which place I have, but I don't want to work with a pissed off guy all day because I wrote him in as #2.

Hey, let's be fair and post the ENTIRE message. The message had been a service to you by our lovely resident dementia patient, mycrofft. He was trying to be nice to you, and to help you fit into the forum.


You want respect? Act like you deserve it. And from your posts, you don't! You don't get respect not because of seasoned veterans but because you're behaving like a jerk!

This post was not about me wanting respect. Its about immature old people demanding it based only on number of years of service.

By copying only the words you wanted to shift the argument to your point of view was extremely disrespectful to the person who tried to share with you and us, the other members of the forum.

It was dishonest, unethical, and an insult to our intelligence.

How ever do you expect to get any respect with that kind of behavior?

Again, im not on here looking for respect.

You owe the person who was being very kind and trying to help an apology. You should apologize to all of us as well, because you deceived or attempted to deceive us all.

Are you really that sensitive?

 

[Shishkabob]

My point was that I have senior staff INSISTING they must have their name in the #1 spot on the run sheet! Both spots mean exactly the same, I could care less! I do not care which place I have, but I don't want to work with a pissed off guy all day because I wrote him in as #2.

How much less COULD you care?


Honestly, if you couldN'T care less, why do you complain about it?



EMS is full of type-A personalities... fighting it on an internet forum won't help your career. If you have problems with someone, talk to them about it or forget it.

 

[MusicMedic]

My point was that I have senior staff INSISTING they must have their name in the #1 spot on the run sheet! Both spots mean exactly the same, I could care less! I do not care which place I have, but I don't want to work with a pissed off guy all day because I wrote him in as #2.



This post was not about me wanting respect. Its about immature old people demanding it based only on number of years of service.

If you could care less then why are you Ranting about it? just respect that they want to be #1 and put them on first...

And about Immature old people (kind of an Oxymoron?) wanting respect: its true in all fields of work, best thing you can do is Deal with it..

Remember the golden rule: Treat others and you want to be treated....

 

[WTEngel]

Respect is a two way street. It takes a lot of maturity and self confidence to show respect, and any person who feels they are deserving of respect should always be mindful of the responsibilities that come with being looked to as a leader.

I still consider myself new in this field, i have only been a paramedic 7 years. It took me two years to get my "sea legs" and truly be confident, and the next five has been spent refining that. I do this by keeping my ears open and my mouth hut most of the time. Almost every day at work I learn something new. Many times i learn from the guys with 20 years plus on the job, and many days I learn from the guys who have only been out of school a few months, maybe a year or two.

So, new guys, keep your ears open, and opinions to yourself for the most part, and understand that nobody is let into the family immediately, you have to prove yourself. Work a few "hair, teeth, and eyeball" calls, demonstrate you can hold it together, and soon enough you will be "one of the guys/gals"

Old guys, remember the amount of responsibility that comes with being well respected and looked to as a leader. Remember back to when you were a student or new guy and think of how you held some people up on a throne. Remember that by teaching bad habits and cutting corners, we are doing our professional industry and the patients huge dis services by showing a new generation of EMS professionals that it is ok or "cool" to have a lax attitude...or worse yet we have all read the posts about the partners that have demonstrated that it is ok to treat certain patients with less respect than others...

I will step off my soapbox now and address Tone for a moment...

Ease up. Pick your battles. I have been in a few battles of "principle" that involved superiors who had seniority, and most likely were trying to put the screws on me a bit. Most often it is not worth it. Even if you win, you lose. I learned a few tough lessons (we all do) and i am better off now. It sounds like with your current attitude you may be the type to engage in those arguments...

 

[8jimi8]

Classic
everyone is against him and now he won't be able to admit his faux paux. Tone do you really need thus much attention? Don't forget you posted to get our opinions. This community will go on without you.

 

[Tone]

Respect is a two way street. It takes a lot of maturity and self confidence to show respect, and any person who feels they are deserving of respect should always be mindful of the responsibilities that come with being looked to as a leader.

I still consider myself new in this field, i have only been a paramedic 7 years. It took me two years to get my "sea legs" and truly be confident, and the next five has been spent refining that. I do this by keeping my ears open and my mouth hut most of the time. Almost every day at work I learn something new. Many times i learn from the guys with 20 years plus on the job, and many days I learn from the guys who have only been out of school a few months, maybe a year or two.

So, new guys, keep your ears open, and opinions to yourself for the most part, and understand that nobody is let into the family immediately, you have to prove yourself. Work a few "hair, teeth, and eyeball" calls, demonstrate you can hold it together, and soon enough you will be "one of the guys/gals"

Old guys, remember the amount of responsibility that comes with being well respected and looked to as a leader. Remember back to when you were a student or new guy and think of how you held some people up on a throne. Remember that by teaching bad habits and cutting corners, we are doing our professional industry and the patients huge dis services by showing a new generation of EMS professionals that it is ok or "cool" to have a lax attitude...or worse yet we have all read the posts about the partners that have demonstrated that it is ok to treat certain patients with less respect than others...

I will step off my soapbox now and address Tone for a moment...

Ease up. Pick your battles. I have been in a few battles of "principle" that involved superiors who had seniority, and most likely were trying to put the screws on me a bit. Most often it is not worth it. Even if you win, you lose. I learned a few tough lessons (we all do) and i am better off now. It sounds like with your current attitude you may be the type to engage in those arguments...

Solid post! thanks for actually reading and contributing. You are right about getting into the battles where if you win, you still lose. Lots of closed minded people out there.

 

[Chimpie]

This thread is being watched, closely. Keep it polite or it will be closed.

 

[clibb]

You're supposed to clean the stretcher after EVERY call??!?

Respect is something you earn and it takes time. Through all my years of hockey I've learned that I only respect someone if they respect me.
And on this forum, there is a lot of respect between each other. The veterans of this forum see the same questions OVER AND OVER again, which I would think is annoying as hell too. That's why they get pissed off and ask people to do a search.
Us newbies, haven't read the question before...

Give it 10+ years and in EMT school they'll be teaching something completely different then what we were taught.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

This thread is being watched, closely. Keep it polite or it will be closed.

LISTEN TO THE MONKEY!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tone,

I'll just keep this really brief since most has already been touched on.

A few things:

1. No matter what rank they are, treat them better than you would like to be treated. It dosen't matter if they are the newest probie or the most experienced supe. You may be in a position to take orders from the supe and give orders to the probie, but that changes nothing about how your overall attitude towards them should be. If you think about it, the earth would be alot nicer place if everyone treated other people like they wanted those people to treeat them.

2. Those who are more senior than you deserve your respect. Like it or not, they have been there longer than you. You don't have to like them, you don't have to fell all warm and fuzzy to respect them, you just have to do it. Your senior partner would have no need to "insist" that you put his number first on the PCR if you did it the first time he asked. Or, a novel concept here, put it first without him even asking! This is what I do. In fact, I always put my number in box #2. I knkow that may seem silly, but my state, my county and my service all have no rules for whose number goes where. So really, what does it hurt. I always fill it out: #1: My partner. #2: Me. #3: Our trainee (if aplicable). If my supe responds as well, he gets number one and everyone else moves down one box. If you really couldn't care less, never put yourself in box #1.

3.

This post was not about me wanting respect. Its about immature old people demanding it based only on number of years of service.

You know what? Like I said above, they deserve it. I know this is not the military, but there, if your coworker has 30 seconds more time in than you, he is your senior and you will respect him. (Military guys, help me out here, I'm just a Navy brat, what is that book called with all the seniority lists?) With you as a brand new member of the forum, I don't really see you in a position to call folks on here "immature old people," do you? Kind of immature sounding on your part to me. Again, if the only thing they have on you is years of service, they deserve respect. And you don't have to like it.

4.

Are you really that sensitive?

And that bugs you why? Some of us still have a conscience (spelling?) that tells us that taking what someone else said and then only partially quoting it, not showing it in true light, and then using it to drive an agenda is wrong. Is this just ak and I here, or is that wrong?

So go out and treat everone better than yourself. It will fix so many conflicts, you won't believe it.

Well, that wasn't really brief.......oh well.

 

[mcdonl]

Tone, sorry about my post earlier. I meant no harm.

I am in the same church, but different pew then you. I am only a little over a year in EMS and licensed only a few months ago. But, I am a crusty old fart.

I have learned, in real life... not on here... that some guys like to share their knowledge, and some don't. I do not think that the medic's who do not take the time to teach me, are doing it to be an a-hole, but sometimes they can do much better than they can teach. That's ok. And, some of them LOVE it when they find out you are new, and they explain everything. I have had a couple tell the patient that I am a student (When I was a student) and that they would be explaining things to me.

Those are moments that I will remember forever and because I shut up, and listened I think they will respect me AFTER I pay my dues.

Again, sorry I was rude. Your association of old with fat and lazy just ticked me off a little. I kicked 20 year old wet behind the ears FF students all over the class when I took it in my 40's and I get stronger, fitter, faster and smarter every year... just saying, age vs time in the industry are two different things.

Sorry Chimpie...

 

[Tone]

Tone, sorry about my post earlier. I meant no harm.

I am in the same church, but different pew then you. I am only a little over a year in EMS and licensed only a few months ago. But, I am a crusty old fart.

I have learned, in real life... not on here... that some guys like to share their knowledge, and some don't. I do not think that the medic's who do not take the time to teach me, are doing it to be an a-hole, but sometimes they can do much better than they can teach. That's ok. And, some of them LOVE it when they find out you are new, and they explain everything. I have had a couple tell the patient that I am a student (When I was a student) and that they would be explaining things to me.

Those are moments that I will remember forever and because I shut up, and listened I think they will respect me AFTER I pay my dues.

Again, sorry I was rude. Your association of old with fat and lazy just ticked me off a little. I kicked 20 year old wet behind the ears FF students all over the class when I took it in my 40's and I get stronger, fitter, faster and smarter every year... just saying, age vs time in the industry are two different things.

Sorry Chimpie...

Apology accepted. I think you just misunderstood my post. If youre in shape, it had no reference to you.

Some of the parts of my original post that I think offended people the most are where I would like to steer this discussion and add some clarity.

Medics who rely on the praise/control they get at work because they don't seem able to attract enough in their personal lives. Cops are much worse at this! Actually it happens in a lot of people's career.

This is where I was going with the out of shape, poor family life comments. They will seek refuge under a few chevrons on their shoulders for 12 hours a day.

Im just saying I'm not feeding into it. I respect people when it is due, and I don't play cheap seniority games to make old guys feel powerful.

The most respected people in my workplace do not even notice where their name is on the run sheet. They do notice if you look them in the eye and speak with confidence.

 

[DrParasite]

omg, who f'N cares what spot your name goes on the sheet. put yours in the 3rd spot. if it makes him feel special, let him be #1. especially if you coudln't care less. in the grand scheme of things, if that's the worst thing he does to you, consider yourself lucky.

remember, even if you have 10 years in EMS, you are still new to every agency when you start. learn their way, learn their protocols, learn their coverage area. learn their paperwork. learn how they do things. Also, don't tell anyone you know how to do anything; SHOW THEM. if they want to lead you around by the nose, let them. once you show them that you know what you are doing, it will stop. that's probably how they were trained back when they started.

There are quite a few EMTs and Paramedics who are happily married, have kids, and a probably more educated and smarter than you. Some might be millionaires and doing EMS just because they enjoy it as a side job (yes, I know two people who do this). and yes, there are some who are in good shape, and others who are not because they do have poor diet and even worse fitness routines. and there are people like that in every walk of life.

When I started my current job, I told people that I knew nothing. I shared very little of my background, very little about my past work experience. I let my job performance show what I knew. If my FTO wanted me to tell me something, even if I knew it, I said "ok, and thank you." even simple questions (what equipment do you take out of the ambulance, etc), let the FTOs and senior EMTs do their job.

The senior guys came before you. maybe you will become a senior guy in 10 years. how would you like it if you worked your way into the position you earned, senior EMT/Medic/supervisor/FTO. and some new guy comes to your agency and treats you like crap, like you know nothing, and talk like they know it all. how are you gonna like that?