Feedback: Open Letter To MMiz

[BLSBoy]

See you in the city.

x2.

You will rarely see me here anymore.
I have made contacts in several states that I value.
I miss some of our most valued posters that got their pee pees smacked for chastising a pup.

It just aint what it used to be....

 

[Ridryder911]

I have held off posting on this to see the direction it was going. It is a shame to see this occur.

When I first entered the site, to be blunt it was full of the bull crap topics most whackers and vollies enjoy the most ... boots and sirens. I remember being chastised by some because I posted medical topics and interest of those that have concern of professional EMS providers.

Fortunately, the mod's have recognized that the site would grow and it was in the best interest for the forum to have some latitude and movement. Yes, it is a private site but it is open for the public and to be truthful without posters it is nothing. There are other EMS forums that have went down this path and they are closed or dead. You open the forum for public usage, expect the results of debates and differences of opinions otherwise restrict the usage and design a blog.

If we are going to be truthful and honest as the goals and mission is to be portrayed here, then remove the title of ..."#1 Online EMS Forum for EMS Related Discussion".... as that is false advertising and could be legally misinterpreted by the numbers of posts r/t EMS topics and posts on other EMS forums... in other words false advertising. Sorry, pants and boots and what is on t.v. to even if you passed your test or not; is NOT really EMS related.

I do believe part of the problem is many that over see are not active in the business or profession that they have a forum for. Why one would even do so, puzzles me. I would have no desire to have a cake decorating forum although I have baked and eaten cakes but if chef's decided to debate and posts topics, then what rationalization could I really have of moderating or deciding what is important or of value? Should there be some over site?...you bet, control .. to a point but that is where one has to determine if they are truly opening it up for public or again just an opinionated arena.

I do hope for the best, as I have always participated in more than one site but had chose this as it was becoming one of the more informatitive and progressive sites from good posters but if you remove the source..... What is left?

R/r 911

 

[Summit]

I do believe part of the problem is many that over-see are not active in the business or profession that they have a forum for. Why one would even do so, puzzles me. I would have no desire to have a cake decorating forum although I have baked and eaten cakes

So very true and very baffling...

Maybe I'll start and moderate a My-Little-Pony forum and ban little girls who actually still play with their My-Little-Pony dolls.

 

[Chimpie]

I do believe part of the problem is many that over see are not active in the business or profession that they have a forum for. Why one would even do so, puzzles me. I would have no desire to have a cake decorating forum although I have baked and eaten cakes but if chef's decided to debate and posts topics, then what rationalization could I really have of moderating or deciding what is important or of value?

Matt is a former EMT, and the forum was created while he was one.

FFEMT8978 is still involved with fire and ems.

I'm a former MFR, still teach, but have moved onto other things.

Just because Matt and I may not make it our full time professions doesn't mean we don't care about the industry. We have just chosen to do something else.

We do believe in interactive, community driven forums. That's why we maintain active here.

To respond to the latter highlighted part.... Of all the moderating we do, less than 5% (a guess) is done regarding the topics themselves. It's the hatred expressed in the posts that cause us to remove them. If the community remains civil we don't have much to moderate.

 

[Luno]

This is getting out of hand...

As one of the oldest non-mods, I guess I should know better than to contribute to this kind of thread, but hey, I'm old and dumb, so here goes...

Mmiz/FFEMT/Chimpie, thank you for your additional work and contribution of resources that provide us a place to exchange ideas, and debate our view points, no matter how odd ball they may seem.

Almost everyone else except Rid/Vent, behave yourselves! This recent enforcement is only because some people are demonstrating a lack of self-control. There is no reason to post multiple times to another stethoscope, lights, volunteer threads, about the original poster's lack of ability to search. If no one responds then they will have to learn to search. There is no point in belittling people. Stop demeaning people, no professional instructor would allow belittling or name calling in their class between students. This forum, as I understand it is a combination of social arena, and learning forum, hence the need to maintain civility. The amount of condescending bs and mockery of another person's viewpoint, serve no point in either education another professional on your view point, or bolstering your public perception as a professional.

Unfortunately, the problem is that when you humiliate or attempt to humiliate someone else, they attach their dislike for humiliation to you, and your message. This causes them to not only dislike you, but also to distrust the information that you're relaying. I highly doubt that most of the people that are the rudest on this site, are actually as rude in person. Having met a few, I would characterize this as simply internet bravado, a false feeling of invincibility of hiding behind a keyboard. When I did meet a few of the rude people from this site, they were nothing like their online personna, which was rather nice, as it would of led to a very short conversation.

I guess long story short, it's the golden rule, treat other people the way you wish to be treated. No, the opinion of "this profession requires a thick skin" doesn't hold water for me, I see no reason to treat another professional in an disrespectful way. It is counterproductive for both ourselves as individual practioners, and as EMS as a profession. If your partner on the AMB/ENG whatever you work treated you the way you treat others on this site, no matter how boneheaded of a decision or remark you've made, you would be taken back and likely offended. Life is life, virtual, forum, or otherwise. All that being said, the forum has been around for years, if you can't be civil and treat others the way you wish to be treated, it's been here before you, and will be here after you leave.*

That being said, if you search my postings, you'll see that the mods don't dislike arguements, as I've been in a few, rather they will "correct" people who lack the ability to converse on the forum with common courtesy and respect.

Rid/Vent, I've learned a lot from your postings, and agree with you in principle regarding the need for elevated standards of education. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that there is the motivation from the industry to bear the burden of increase in education. I do agree that it is a fight that needs to start with us, and I appreciate you reminding us of that. That also being said, you can't save everyone. Some people will always do the bare minimum to get by, and nothing will change that. I look forward to continuing to learn from your postings.

*If you conduct yourselves with common courtesy, respect, and self-discipline, the preceeding does not apply to you, thank you for reading...

Just a post from a guy who reads alot, and doesn't usually say much... -luno

 

[daedalus]

x2.

You will rarely see me here anymore.
I have made contacts in several states that I value.
I miss some of our most valued posters that got their pee pees smacked for chastising a pup.

It just aint what it used to be....

Agree.

see you in the city.

 

[TransportJockey]

Hmmm... might have to pop into the city more often. I don't wanna miss everyone

 

[DV_EMT]

well... I for one kinda like the balance of equptment related thread as well as the medically releavnt question threads. I will say that It kinda ridiculous to see a new thread everyday about stethoscopes/ pants/ and bags.

Can we sticky them or something for all the N00bs?

 

[medichopeful]

well... I for one kinda like the balance of equptment related thread as well as the medically releavnt question threads. I will say that It kinda ridiculous to see a new thread everyday about stethoscopes/ pants/ and bags.

Can we sticky them or something for all the N00bs?

There is a sticky for stethoscopes.

 

[HotelCo]

There's kind of a catch 22 with starting a new thread v ressurecting an old thread.

If they start a new thread, they get "If you had bothered to seach you would have found a bunch of threads on this topic. If they resurect an old thread they get "Why did you dig up this old thread?" or "I thought we were past this".

 

[nomofica]

There's kind of a catch 22 with starting a new thread v ressurecting an old thread.

If they start a new thread, they get "If you had bothered to seach you would have found a bunch of threads on this topic. If they resurect an old thread they get "Why did you dig up this old thread?" or "I thought we were past this".

I've noticed this as well.

 

[MMiz]

If we are going to be truthful and honest as the goals and mission is to be portrayed here, then remove the title of ..."#1 Online EMS Forum for EMS Related Discussion".... as that is false advertising and could be legally misinterpreted by the numbers of posts r/t EMS topics and posts on other EMS forums... in other words false advertising. Sorry, pants and boots and what is on t.v. to even if you passed your test or not; is NOT really EMS related.

I understand what you're saying, but really? I intended to remove the line when we get a new logo, because websites are moving away from including text in logos, but is it really that bothersome? Based on available data, EMTLife has the most traffic of any EMS forum online.

EMTLife was created nearly six years ago as an experiment in both online communities and search engine optimization. When that experiment ended in 2005, I was left with a community that I fond of, and had learned so much from. It was at that point that I committed myself to continuing EMTLife.com as a free resource and community.

I never would have imagined that today we'd have such a large community and diverse community. While others have required registration to view topics, EMTLife has always been free. While others have ads all over, EMTLife hasn't. Whereas others ask for donations for premium member status, EMTLife hasn't. I'm proud of what we, as a community, have accomplished since 2004.

I do believe part of the problem is many that over see are not active in the business or profession that they have a forum for. Why one would even do so, puzzles me. I would have no desire to have a cake decorating forum although I have baked and eaten cakes but if chef's decided to debate and posts topics, then what rationalization could I really have of moderating or deciding what is important or of value? Should there be some over site?...you bet, control .. to a point but that is where one has to determine if they are truly opening it up for public or again just an opinionated arena.

I understand what you're saying, but believe that it doesn't take a medic to be fair and enforce rules or lead a community. Looking at our leadership, with currently active members in bold:

Chimpie - MFR
ffemt8978 - EMT-Intermediate
MMiz - EMT-Basic
Jon - EMT-Paramedic
MedicPrincess - EMT-Paramedic
rescuecpt - EMT-Paramedic
SafetyPro - EMT-Basic, Emergency Planner, Fire Captain

We're not all active in EMS, but I'm not sure that makes us any less valuable to the community. While I don't get on the rig as much as I used to, I still maintain my distance and on-side continuing education credits. As an educator I've worked as an advocate for EMS, started a middle school EMS club, and continue to educate my students about EMS. I work as an on-side emergency responder providing a higher level of care than I did as an EMT-Basic.

It's tough to maintain Community Leaders, which is an entirely volunteer position.

I do hope for the best, as I have always participated in more than one site but had chose this as it was becoming one of the more informatitive and progressive sites from good posters but if you remove the source..... What is left?

This community is nothing without our members, I agree. In a few minutes I will post a letter to the community, while I hope you'll read, but I'm hopeful that together we continue to have a great community.

 

[JonTullos]

Ok, here's my take... and take it for what it's worth.

I'm new. I don't know everything about EMS nor do I claim to. However, I do have common sense (well, some anyway) and I know disrespect and unprofessionalism when I see it. The way I've been treated at times because I had a differing opinion has been horrible. Now, it's not like I went off into my little corner and cried about it (trust me, I don't lose sleep over such things) but a little respect by those who claim to be "professional" isn't asking too much in my opinion. When ever the word "volunteer" *gasp!* is mentioned around it, it normally irrupts into a battle of "paid vs. volly" and it got tiresome. I even stated that for those reasons I wouldn't participate in such threads anymore and wound up getting called out for it by a member of the forum. There are people who think that Basics have no business on an ambulance and that anyone who asks a question that "they should have learned in class" is an idiot.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions... but be civil about it! There's no reason for all the bashing that goes on. I'm afraid to post in certain threads because I don't want to be treated like a moron just because I stated an opinion that differs from the "important ones" views or that I'll catch Hell because I volunteer my time on the side.

No one is so important that their posts matter more than someone else's and no one's so experienced that their opinion matters more. Post medical studies and such, I like stuff like that! But don't treat people like dirt. That's not asking too much. Debate is fine but when it constantly turns into a name-calling, fists flying and alphabet soup titles being throw around battle then we have a problem.

Sure, there are things that can be changed. I don't like all the boots, pants and scopes threads either... maybe we could have a sticky where people can be informed of where they can find the information/reviews they're looking for?

Bottom line: I know this isn't Wonderland but we can treat each other with respect. If you think that that's asking too much then maybe you need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror and question whether or not maybe you're the problem.

 

[Onceamedic]

The solution isn't as simple as address people with civility. The problem is vastly different definitions of what constitutes civility and what is spirited debate. There are thin skinned people here who get extremely defensive when they are questioned or their viewpoint is dressed down as ill-informed or badly presented. For whatever reason, this field attracts the "gee whiz give me a good trauma" types, as well as those that resent book larnin and want to drive fast with lights and sirens.
The volley vs. paid debate is a valid one, as is fire vs ems. When those that are actively fighting for increased educational requirements and professionalism in the field confront those that have no interest in this it can lead to a lot of frustration and anger.
The last resort of those whose arguments are proven ill-informed and counter-productive is to complain that they have the right to their opinion (ignorant though it may be) and that people are mean to them.

 

[firecoins]

I am not interested in whetjer a topic comes up alot. SO what? You mena stethescopes come up alot? Who cares? You are not required to post!!!!

Want to resurrect an old thread? Great!!! You don't like it, DON'T POST!!!

If you want more educational posts, START A THREAD!!!! Those who like it will read and possibly post.

 

[DT4EMS]

Wow...........

I have not been on as much because I am pretty covered up........... now that that is out of the way let me say this...........

One of the most important ways I have attempted to conduct myself on a forum is not to say anything on a forum I wouldn't say to a person's face.

It makes me think of something I head someone once say when talking about a man that claimed he couldn't control his temper when it came to his wife............

Put that same man next to a man twice his size and see if he is able to control his temper then.........

There are times when I view a thread and it is difficult to determine the "feel" of the poster. Other times it is very clear it is personal.

I am all for a spirited debate. But remember that debate can end when a person takes it or makes it personal.

 

[Seaglass]

I'm tired of all the drama. It's just plain annoying when a thread turns into a volunteer vs. career war, or a person you've been talking with is inexplicably banned. It's stupid when a poster thinks they'll win an argument by simply saying they're an Educator and the other person is a fool, and even worse when the other person actually can win by whining about hurt feelings. If your argument can't stand for itself, you're doing it wrong.

I usually leave when a forum's focus turns into the forum itself, rather than real topics. I'll see how things go, but a city account seems to be in my future.

 

[Shishkabob]

Too much drama.


Do I not like some things about how this place is run? Sure, but obviously the good outweighs the bad or else I wouldn't have over 2,000 post in less than a year.



Trust me, compared to how some of the forums I frequent are run, this place is fantastic, and I know there are atleast 2 members on this forum that know me in other non-EMS related forums and know what I'm talking about.



I've had my bouts with a couple of CLs, and made clear what I thought was unfair, but I'm still here.

 

[dewd09]

One thing I gotta say that's nice. When you click on the bookmark, the site always works. Some other sites, with similar titles, are often plagued with errors. "Come back later". No thanks.

 

[Summit]

Seaglass may have the most balanced post on the thread.

The solution isn't as simple as address people with civility. The problem is vastly different definitions of what constitutes civility and what is spirited debate. There are thin skinned people here who get extremely defensive when they are questioned or their viewpoint is dressed down as ill-informed or badly presented. For whatever reason, this field attracts the "gee whiz give me a good trauma" types, as well as those that resent book larnin and want to drive fast with lights and sirens.
The volley vs. paid debate is a valid one, as is fire vs ems. When those that are actively fighting for increased educational requirements and professionalism in the field confront those that have no interest in this it can lead to a lot of frustration and anger.
The last resort of those whose arguments are proven ill-informed and counter-productive is to complain that they have the right to their opinion (ignorant though it may be) and that people are mean to them.

Amen

But this is the new official position of EMTLife:

Those members who feel it is their duty to right the wrongs of the EMS community via EMTLife are not welcome here.