Police Based Paramedics

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nemedic

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though that is not necessarily indicative of the concept of and practice not being doable. The issue with the Hamilton PD/EMS is a bad apple over time causing the whole bushel to rot
 
firecoins

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Greenburg Police Westchester NY not only has cops who respond with the ambulance as paramedics, they also pull cars over with the ambulance.
 
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46Young

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firecoins said:
Greenburg Police Westchester NY not only has cops who respond with the ambulance as paramedics, they also pull cars over with the ambulance.
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That's funny. You know how many times I've witnessed reckless driving and motorists blowing past me while driving code? It would be both hilarious and satisfying to slap a ticket on some idiot yakking away on a cell phone driving erratically (it's illegal to talk on cell phones in NY for those that don't know).
 
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46Young said:
That's funny. You know how many times I've witnessed reckless driving and motorists blowing past me while driving code? It would be both hilarious and satisfying to slap a ticket on some idiot yakking away on a cell phone driving erratically (it's illegal to talk on cell phones in NY for those that don't know).
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Its funny to watch Greenburg Police try to pull someone over with the ambulance. The car moves to the right but doesn't stop, thinking they are just getting out of the way of the ambulance. When the ambulance pulls behind them, they pull to the left. So they end up with 2 tickets, 1 for speeding and 1 for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle.
 
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46Young

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firecoins said:
Its funny to watch Greenburg Police try to pull someone over with the ambulance. The car moves to the right but doesn't stop, thinking they are just getting out of the way of the ambulance. When the ambulance pulls behind them, they pull to the left. So they end up with 2 tickets, 1 for speeding and 1 for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle.
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Have they caused any accidents by doing that yet?
 
MMiz

MMiz

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I know that the Ingham County Sheriff in Michigan is Police Office/Paramedic. Last I saw they were still using impalas and Tahoes.
 
ExpatMedic0

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no offense but you guys who think the fire department based EMS is terrible.... WTF are people thinking with LE based EMS? IMO Worst thing I have ever herd period.
 
wolfwyndd

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schulz said:
no offense but you guys who think the fire department based EMS is terrible.... WTF are people thinking with LE based EMS? IMO Worst thing I have ever herd period.
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I'm afraid I have to agree here. I'm not sure it's the WORST idea I've heard, but I do have personal issues with LE based patient care. When a patient is telling an EMT (that's also a cop) that he's snorted three or four lines of coke and is overdosing, that COULD affect what happens to the patient after the emergency of saving their life is over. Or what if the patient DOESN'T tell the EMT (that's also a cop) that he just snorted a couple lines of coke because he's afraid of what the COP will do to him? Just an example, obviously, but you can see where I'm going with that. IMO there's gotta be some REALLY strong lines dividing 'patient care' and 'law enforcement.'
 
8jimi8

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8jimi8

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a firearm in every car would make for much less distraction ...

and a LOT more courtesy!
 
Shishkabob

Shishkabob

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EMSLaw said:
You just have to use a headset or earpiece. It's part of the crackdown on distracted driving in a lot of states.
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I was commenting on cell phone use period, not just use in a car. I know that's not what he meant, but I'm a smart-butt.
 
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46Young

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Linuss said:
Wow, must make traveling business away from the office crappy :p
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Nice. I guess I could've worded that a little better.
 
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medicdan

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FLEMTP

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schulz said:
no offense but you guys who think the fire department based EMS is terrible.... WTF are people thinking with LE based EMS? IMO Worst thing I have ever herd period.
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I can see where a couple of you are coming from...to an extent. I worked extensively with the Genesee County Sheriff Dept Deputy-Paramedics.

In my experience, most of the time they would stress the fact that they want the person to get the most appropriate treatment, and would set their "law enforcement" duties aside, within reason, to make sure someone was treated and care for in an appropriate way. For the guy that snorted 4 or 5 lines of coke, they would tell them... look, i dont care about the coke... or other drugs.. just tell me whats up so i can help you. Im a paramedic right now, not a cop.. and they would keep that word. Its called officer discretion...plus you cannot arrest someone for possession of a drug if they've already used it and you didnt witness them in possession.

There are laws allowing you to arrest someone for being under the influence of a drug in some states and locations... but usually in those locations, Law enforcement (whether paramedic or not) will use some common sense... if someone's overdosed on cocaine or is having cardiac related or medical type issues from a drug ingestion, LEOs on scene realize that the medical problem is problem enough and usually just stress to the person they are there to make sure they get the right help.

I think that ALL LEO's should have EMS training, at least to the level of EMT. Here we get many calls to "check a patient for law enforcement" because the LEO's have no EMS training, and need us to check the patient for liability reasons prior to an arrest... plus the extra education in pharmacology would certainly benefit the LEO's when they have someone taking a medicine they've never heard of.. rather than calling EMS to identify the type of medicine and its effects, they have the knowledge and education on hand.

The other HUGE benefit to LEO's cross trained as medics is that LEO's are on constant patrol in most locations, they either get on scene of a medical/trauma call first, or end up initiating the calls themselves because they are out in public and visible whereas EMS/Fire are typically posted in a specific location or station, and can take several minutes longer than LEO to arrive on scene.

The flip side of that, when paramedics are also certified as LEO's and assigned to an ambulance, it gives them greater leeway to get things done... for example.. you're working a car accident and someone blows right through the emergency vehicles on scene and endangers the personnel on scene, there is no need to wait for law enforcement to arrive and handle the situation... you now have the legal authority to stop the vehicle (even if its yelling at them to stop the vehicle or flagging them to the side of the road) and cite the driver if appropriate.

It also would improve EMS providers sense of scene security. I see so many times where EMS providers are on scene dealing with a patient, and they get tunnel vision and dont notice other people walking up to the scene right away... or if a call goes bad, rather than pulling back and hoping no one on the EMS crew gets injured, they now know how to defend themselves in a legal, and appropriate manner.

I think the BIGGEST benefit to this would be that EMS providers would be subject to the same hiring, background and fitness standards that LEO's are subjected to. Would weed out a lot of the bad apples we hear about in EMS, to an extent, because we all know that there are still some bad apples in law enforcement, but overall, I feel that there are fewer bad apples in law enforcement per capita than in EMS simply due to the rigorous hiring process involved with LEO's

I could go on all day with examples of the benefits behind cross training in EMS and Law Enforcement, but I hope ya'll get the idea where I'm coming from.

Just so you guys know my background, I have had some Law enforcement experience , and lots of EMS experience... but not in a combined role.

I think as long as you have clear cut boundaries entailing when its appropriate to act in a primary law enforcement or a primary paramedic type mode or mindset, its a great tool and awesome training for either law enforcement or EMS to have available to them.
 
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