concealed weapon carry

[errey]

Oh the irony of this thread

 

[Handsome Robb]

I'm still wondering what kind of uniforms y'all wear to carry concealed and not have to do backflips and yoga moves to get to said concealed firearm.

Where do you plan on concealing it? Only plausible spot I could think of would be an ankle holster and even then constantly kneeling with the hem of your pants riding up you're risking displaying the fact that you have a firearm.

 

[STXmedic]

I'm still wondering what kind of uniforms y'all wear to carry concealed and not have to do backflips and yoga moves to get to said concealed firearm.

Where do you plan on concealing it? Only plausible spot I could think of would be an ankle holster and even then constantly kneeling with the hem of your pants riding up you're risking displaying the fact that you have a firearm.

Actually, one of my favorite uniform shirts to wear (when I'm not in a tshirt ) would make for very easy concealment and access:

 

[Bullets]

I'm still wondering what kind of uniforms y'all wear to carry concealed and not have to do backflips and yoga moves to get to said concealed firearm.

Where do you plan on concealing it? Only plausible spot I could think of would be an ankle holster and even then constantly kneeling with the hem of your pants riding up you're risking displaying the fact that you have a firearm.

Under your weak arm in a shoulder holster

take your button down shirts to any uniform supplier and they should be able to replace buttons 3 and 4 with snaps. On the surface they look like buttons but behind them they snap closed. Knife your hand between the plackets and they unsnap, allowing easy access to your firearm

 

[usalsfyre]

Under your weak arm in a shoulder holster

take your button down shirts to any uniform supplier and they should be able to replace buttons 3 and 4 with snaps. On the surface they look like buttons but behind them they snap closed. Knife your hand between the plackets and they unsnap, allowing easy access to your firearm

Which also puts your hand in a very weak position if things go to rodeo...

The problem with CC...with handgun carry period even, is that you generally can't present it fast enough when surprised at the distances EMS deals with people. I've done the drills, even against a world class speed shooter I can be on top of him before he can make a good move to the gun.

Law enforcement officers generally have their gun out of they think things may get hinky. Most CCW instructors advise the same. By far the best tool you have sits on top of your shoulders. Watch your surroundings, what you say and how you say it. That's done far more to protect me than a gun. Off duty is one thing, I can set my distance and choose the situations I get myself into. On duty is another.

 

[Rialaigh]

Heck there is a hospital in NJ that has its own POLICE DEPARTMENT!

While carrying a firearm is not directly related to medical treatment, as long as EMS personnel going to continue to be the targets of criminals, this issue is going to present itself. While sending LE to every call is ideal, in many systems it isnt a reality. In urban areas the cops have more calls then units available, so routine medical calls take lower priorities. In rural areas you have more miles to cover and less units to do it. Only in true suburban areas will you get cops on every call.

And until someone can explain why someone who holds a valid CCW permit must relinquish that right when they go on duty, it still wont make any sense

A concealed carry permit allows you to concealed carry in the areas that the government says are okay and your own property. As far as I know none of us have a government given right to defend ourselves while at work (when the work is not on your property).

I'm not a fan of introducing firearms into the back of an ambulance period. And for those that say our job is dangerous, we go into the same situations as police, we are on unsafe scenes all the time, etc. I would argue being an industrial plant worker causes more injuries a year per 1,000 employees than EMS.

I think EMS as a whole is a fairly safe industry.

http://www.emsedsem.org/Prior Articles/EMS_Fatalities from JEMS.pdf


If you go off these statistics they say that 10 EMS workers were killed by homicide between 1992-1997, lets just assume 5 years. That's 2 deaths per year.

They assumed 150,000 EMS workers as well based of BLS statistics. Thats 1.33 homicides per 100,000 EMS workers per year. The average homicide rate in the US is 4.7.

Okay so EMS workers are only on the job 40 hours a week lets say. So if you take the 1.33 and multiply it by 4.2 (this would assume every EMS worker on the job all day and night every day of the week). You get 5.6, which is really only marginally higher then the rate in the US as a whole.

Granted small sample size but it was the only study I could pull up real quick. Fact is if you take out traffic related deaths from our job I believe that being an EMS professional is actually quite safer than many other jobs despite all our "dangerous situations" and "unfriendly people" that we deal with.


I'm not a huge fan of this debate but I am just not sold that there is ANY evidence at all that any of the homicides in the last several years in EMS were in any way preventable by having firearms. And if you believe the numbers of 10 homicides in 5 years through the 90's I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue that even the benefit of preventing all 10 of them would outweigh the risk of having 150,000 EMS professionals carry firearms on them all the time on the job...

 

[Action942Jackson]

In Kentucky, we have a new state law that prohibits public employers (Governments) from not allowing personnel to open or conceal carry. It also prohibits governments the ability to ban guns on public property. This was a recent bill that passed in February. We are an open carry state as well. We also do not have to register our guns.

So, majority of services are washing their hands clean and telling people you fire a gun your carrying its your own ***. And if you decide to open carry, we will find a way to fire you. There are two agencies in the state that have taken the proactive route and their entire department either conceals or open carries, but they are providing the necessary training beyond CCDW to do so.

My county doesn't want any such liability so they've washed their hands clean. My wife is an EMT to the county to my south and almost came home in a casket the other day because of a crazed teenager going for a gun. What makes matters worse was PD WAS on scene and didn't do anything about it until the kid had the gun in his hand.

I've had three knives pulled on me while trying to work patients, majority of them while in the back of an ambulance. I've also had a shooter return to an active shooting scene and open fire on the cops, less then 50 ft from where my partner and I were.

So, I pack, I've gotten my CCDW, and I currently carry my Sig P250 .45 Compact on my hip on duty. I will be attending further firearms training at my own expense. Windbreaker over the weapon for concealment. You can bash me with what ya want. But my 1 year old son has almost paid the price of not having a mommy or daddy during our careers because of stupid people, retarded cops, and a crazed teen. Our safety cannot be guaranteed by no one else but ourselves.

 

[Action942Jackson]

It's HB500 and it specifically pertains to Firefighers, EMTs, and Paramedics.

 

[wanderingmedic]

if you cant/ are not willing to deal with the danger public servants face, then find a new job. these threats to our safety have been around since the beginning of EMS. we risk ourselves so that others have a chance to survive. it does not matter how well armed, or armored we become, first responders will always face danger in the line of duty.

 

[Action942Jackson]

if you cant/ are not willing to deal with the danger public servants face, then find a new job. these threats to our safety have been around since the beginning of EMS. we risk ourselves so that others have a chance to survive. it does not matter how well armed, or armored we become, first responders will always face danger in the line of duty.

Please stop with the hero mentality. As far as not being able to face these "threats" I've been a paramedic for 7 years and a EMT for 2, for a total of 9 years in this business. I've had my fair share of dealing with these "threats".

Lets just use your logic shall we? If you claim that we accept these dangers. Then whats the point in cops carrying guns, if they accept the dangers of being a cop? What's the point in arming our military, if by the jobs nature it is dangerous and they signed up for it?

You and you alone are responsible for your safety. Aka, "Scene Safety".

If we continue to turn a blind eye to this and not start now to take proactive approaches to our safety. Whether its cops responding to all of our calls or carrying. We are just as stupid as the fools who commit the crimes against us.

Due to living in rural America where I have 5 cops for 30k people and 204 sq miles. We cannot have a cop on every one of our scenes. It's just unfortunately gonna happen. And unfortunately. In rural America, everyone is armed and there are a few crazy lunatics.

 

[JPINFV]

Jesus christ that guy was annoying.

'No sir, you can't have my first name'

More annoying than the police officers conducting an illegal stop, and after his initial attempt to leave, an illegal detainment?


Also... since it bears repeating, treadmills and seatbelts would save more EMS lives than guns or knives. Strange how there's always an excuse on why those aren't needed.

 

[Rialaigh]

More annoying than the police officers conducting an illegal stop, and after his initial attempt to leave, an illegal detainment?


Also... since it bears repeating, treadmills and seatbelts would save more EMS lives than guns or knives. Strange how there's always an excuse on why those aren't needed.

This, pointing back to the study I posted you can read how many died in vehicle accidents, and I bet many more than that died of ACS or Strokes during that same time period.

 

[ffemt8978]

A concealed carry permit allows you to concealed carry in the areas that the government says are okay and your own property. As far as I know none of us have a government given right to defend ourselves while at work (when the work is not on your property).

I'm not a fan of introducing firearms into the back of an ambulance period. And for those that say our job is dangerous, we go into the same situations as police, we are on unsafe scenes all the time, etc. I would argue being an industrial plant worker causes more injuries a year per 1,000 employees than EMS.

I think EMS as a whole is a fairly safe industry.

http://www.emsedsem.org/Prior Articles/EMS_Fatalities from JEMS.pdf


If you go off these statistics they say that 10 EMS workers were killed by homicide between 1992-1997, lets just assume 5 years. That's 2 deaths per year.

They assumed 150,000 EMS workers as well based of BLS statistics. Thats 1.33 homicides per 100,000 EMS workers per year. The average homicide rate in the US is 4.7.

Okay so EMS workers are only on the job 40 hours a week lets say. So if you take the 1.33 and multiply it by 4.2 (this would assume every EMS worker on the job all day and night every day of the week). You get 5.6, which is really only marginally higher then the rate in the US as a whole.

Granted small sample size but it was the only study I could pull up real quick. Fact is if you take out traffic related deaths from our job I believe that being an EMS professional is actually quite safer than many other jobs despite all our "dangerous situations" and "unfriendly people" that we deal with.


I'm not a huge fan of this debate but I am just not sold that there is ANY evidence at all that any of the homicides in the last several years in EMS were in any way preventable by having firearms. And if you believe the numbers of 10 homicides in 5 years through the 90's I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue that even the benefit of preventing all 10 of them would outweigh the risk of having 150,000 EMS professionals carry firearms on them all the time on the job...

Rights are Rights, they are not granted by the government. Governments can attempt to restrict Rights, but they do NOT grant Rights.

And show me a law that says you are required to become a victim and are not allowed to defend yourself while you are at work...

I'll wait....

 

[Aidey]

Rights are Rights, they are not granted by the government. Governments can attempt to restrict Rights, but they do NOT grant Rights.

And show me a law that says you are required to become a victim and are not allowed to defend yourself while you are at work...

I'll wait....

In this case it is a little of both. Governments allow a long list of public and private entities to restrict gun rights on their premises. If it was an absolute then more places would have laws saying no one but a private person in their own home can restrict access if you have a gun.

 

[ffemt8978]

In this case it is a little of both. Governments allow a long list of public and private entities to restrict gun rights on their premises. If it was an absolute then more places would have laws saying no one but a private person in their own home can restrict access if you have a gun.

Not entirely true...

There is no law that says you must give up your inherent Right to Self Defense simply because you go to work. There are laws that restrict how you can defend yourself, but there is none that says you can not defend yourself.

 

[Aidey]

But there is also no law saying that everyone must grant access to people with a gun. That omission means that access can be restricted. It might not be directly restricted by the government, but they also aren't outlawing it.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Under your weak arm in a shoulder holster

take your button down shirts to any uniform supplier and they should be able to replace buttons 3 and 4 with snaps. On the surface they look like buttons but behind them they snap closed. Knife your hand between the plackets and they unsnap, allowing easy access to your firearm

Gotcha. Ours zip up with fake buttons covering the zipper. Blauer makes them. Wouldn't work for me unless I paid out the nose to have all my uniform shirts re-issued in the 5.11 style.

 

[Rialaigh]

Not entirely true...

There is no law that says you must give up your inherent Right to Self Defense simply because you go to work. There are laws that restrict how you can defend yourself, but there is none that says you can not defend yourself.

And there is no law saying you can't quit and find another job that allows you to practice your right to self defense on private property. When you step off of your property onto property maintained and owned by someone else you are going from a right to self defense to a privilege granted to you by that property owner.

 

[ffemt8978]

And there is no law saying you can't quit and find another job that allows you to practice your right to self defense on private property. When you step off of your property onto property maintained and owned by someone else you are going from a right to self defense to a privilege granted to you by that property owner.

Prove it...

 

[JPINFV]

I think the catch here is that you always have a right to self defense. However, the tools available to exercise that right can be restricted by both society and property owners.