Trooper vs. Paramedic

[AJ Hidell]

The prosecutor has come out and said there is video of the medic assaulting the officer, and you want the cop fired?

Yes. He started the confrontation to begin with, and illegally so.

Saucey, your theory is nonsense. Few people are even defending these troopers on the LEO forums. It's not just us condemning their behavior. And have you ever noticed that it's the same couple of cop wannabes here who are constantly defending them, regardless of the situation? And you want to accuse others of unfairly judging? You have to be kidding me.

 

[Shishkabob]

Wait, how did the officer illegally start the confrontation? Last I checked, no vehicle is exempt from being pulled over.



And, if it WAS illegal, the officer would have been let go by now, a week later.

 

[reaper]

Wait...so when you say "do it, they do it." But "you work with your LE" when they have to "request things from you?"

So you issue orders to the cops, and they have to "request" things from you?



In my state, EMS isn't allowed to shut the highway down, only police can control traffic. And if it takes you two hours to do your job as a medic at a crash scene, I have to wonder. Not to mention, what takes two hours aside from a major MCI or plane crash on a highway? Something that serious would be way above both of our paygrades. Besides, making someone drive 6 hours out of their way to get by the highway "you shut down" just shows poor planning, and poor deployment of resources. Not to mention, your entire post smells like a power trip to me.

This shows that you have never worked a large accident scene. Shutting down a highway for two hours, may be minimal. I have seen MVC scenes that had a major interstate shut down for 10-12 hours. 2 hours of that was just for extrication of pt's. The other 10 hours was for Highway to investigate the scene!

I seen no one on here stating that all LEO are bad or not respected. There are lots of bad apples out there, the same way there is in EMS!

 

[SauceyEMT]

Saucey, your theory is nonsense. Few people are even defending these troopers on the LEO forums.

You're missing my point. I'm not supporting THESE Troopers. I've already said that they were wrong. My point is that EMS people should not order around cops, (which is what was alleged by another poster) anymore than cops should be ordering around EMS people.

I'm not a cop wannabe, and I'm not defending them regardless of the situation. I'm making my point that EMS people seem to think they run the show, and many cops think the same. It's all BS that interferes with getting the job, regardless of who's it is.

Shutting down a highway for two hours, may be minimal. I have seen MVC scenes that had a major interstate shut down for 10-12 hours. 2 hours of that was just for extrication of pt's. The other 10 hours was for Highway to investigate the scene!

Right, so it's an MCI, which is what I stated as the reason for extended road closure. Was it one medic who was running the scene?

 

[medic417]

Wait...so when you say "do it, they do it." But "you work with your LE" when they have to "request things from you?"

So you issue orders to the cops, and they have to "request" things from you?



In my state, EMS isn't allowed to shut the highway down, only police can control traffic. And if it takes you two hours to do your job as a medic at a crash scene, I have to wonder. Not to mention, what takes two hours aside from a major MCI or plane crash on a highway? Something that serious would be way above both of our paygrades. Besides, making someone drive 6 hours out of their way to get by the highway "you shut down" just shows poor planning, and poor deployment of resources. Not to mention, your entire post smells like a power trip to me.

No power trip. We are in charge of scene until we release it to law enforcement. You obviously have not worked mass casualty or hazmat.

We did not make them drive 6 hours, I said if they wanted to go around that was how much longer it would take them. No other options, and was very good planning as it kept more people from dieing.

But enough dealing with you as you obviously are not experienced.

 

[medic417]

Right, so it's an MCI, which is what I stated as the reason for extended road closure. Was it one medic who was running the scene?

Actually one medic does become incident commander and directs all operations. Hope you never have to experience mass cassualty.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Wait, how did the officer illegally start the confrontation? Last I checked, no vehicle is exempt from being pulled over.

It is contrary to Oklahoma law (a crime, not just a ticketable offense) to interfere with EMS personnel. A perceived traffic offense is not justification to violate that criminal law.

And it takes longer than a week to fire a cop.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I'm not a cop wannabe

You're a working, commissioned officer?

 

[Chimpie]

Keep this friendly and clean and the thread will stay open. Anything else and it will be closed.

 

[VFFforpeople]

I respectfully question your repeated shoot downs of all attempts to bring balance to the issue. Your right, only the dash cam will tell, however, you are not remaining objective. Like AJ said, we in EMS need to have some rights too. What if that was you and your partner?

As an aside, I have failed to pull over for numerous police going code behind me when I have been transporting. Once, I was going code as well, and the officer behind me turned his warning equipment off, and backed off until I turned. Second time, medic in back was starting an IV during a no code transport. I thought about my duty to my patient before trying to pull erratically to the right with all the other cars (you have seen how the public can react).

Never had problems.

Like Kip has said, this whole thing makes me literally nauseous. I get upset watching it, because police and EMS are supposed to be partners in service and champions for the public.

My ideal resolution would be to have a meeting with the two medics, two troopers, and some mediators, in which both sides could debrief and apologise. Than, modules should be added to the police academy and EMS education on fostering positive relationships with other emergency services, and finally, activities such as EMS vs. Police baseball games and picnics should be held to again foster positive relations between departments.

Agreed! See, like i stated ealier and you helped make my point (bettering it lol). See what a level head can accomplish when we all arnt trying to be right? Agreed!!

 

[VentMedic]

This shows that you have never worked a large accident scene. Shutting down a highway for two hours, may be minimal. I have seen MVC scenes that had a major interstate shut down for 10-12 hours. 2 hours of that was just for extrication of pt's. The other 10 hours was for Highway to investigate the scene!

I seen no one on here stating that all LEO are bad or not respected. There are lots of bad apples out there, the same way there is in EMS!

reaper, I just can not believe your arrogant and naive statements about shutting down a highway. Of course, you may live in rural nowhere where this only affects 3 cars for 12 hours.

When we shut down a highway we have alot of safety issues that EMS and Law Enforcement MUST be concerned about. There will be people doing unlawful driving to get around a scene. There will be U-turns and driving on the wrong side of the road. That also applies to rescue vehicles. You bet I want LEOs working with us at all exits to make sure our rescue and EMS personnel are not injured responding to the scene. As well, all dispatchers of various agencies will have to be notified of closures and alternative routes. That again applies to everyone, EMS and PD, because your emergency is not the only one and the world does not stop just for you.

In long road closures, tempers will be short and guess who has to deal with those situations while traffic is at a standstill?
Law Enforcement Officers.

Guess who will also be first on scene when someone getting overheated waiting for the road to open?
Law Enforcement Officers.

Guess who will have to make way for EMS to get to that emergency?
Law Enforcement Officers.

One little EMT can say the road has to be shut down, but it takes coordination from LEOs to make it happen safely for all involved.

No power trip. We are in charge of scene until we release it to law enforcement. You obviously have not worked mass casualty or hazmat.

We did not make them drive 6 hours, I said if they wanted to go around that was how much longer it would take them. No other options, and was very good planning as it kept more people from dieing.

But enough dealing with you as you obviously are not experienced.

My comments also go to you and I am experienced enough and have been through many road closures and evacuations from both a ground and an air point of view. This also goes along with several hurricane and flood situations which require cooperation from all.

While EMS and Fire concentrate on the immediate problem, LEOs have a broader area to cover to ensure your safety as well as that of many, many others.

Is there little wonder why some in EMS get little respect not only from FDs, LEOs and Healthcare professionals but also from each other? Some believe they are an island and all centers around themselves with no understanding or concerns for the safety of others as their situation may affect. Yes, your patient is important which is why LEOs are there to watch not only your back but to see that everyone approaching that scene is safe.

 

[Shishkabob]

It is contrary to Oklahoma law (a crime, not just a ticketable offense) to interfere with EMS personnel. A perceived traffic offense is not justification to violate that criminal law.

And it takes longer than a week to fire a cop.

Again, cops are exempt from many laws while in the process of doing their duties. And again, all vehicles on the road are subject to being stopped by a police car if deemed necessary, including other emergency vehicles.


Until I see charges brought up against the officer, or until you can show me exactly where it says police cannot pull over emergency vehicles, then arguing otherwise is fruitless.

 

[Jon]

Right, so it's an MCI, which is what I stated as the reason for extended road closure. Was it one medic who was running the scene?

MCI? Define MCI? I've had incidents with extreme entrapment with a small handful of victims. One that comes to mind was an overturned tractor trailer with entrapment of the driver. Took almost 2 hours to extricate the patient. Then there was cleanup - even if just for the spilled fuel from the saddle tanks. And beyond that, there was a fatality in another vehicle... so the highway was shut down for most of the day. Yes - that becomes a call above the pay grade of the beat cop - but when there is a truck across the road, traffic isn't getting by until it is moved anyway.

 

[medic417]

Is there little wonder why some in EMS get little respect not only from FDs, LEOs and Healthcare professionals but also from each other? Some believe they are an island and all centers around themselves with no understanding or concerns for the safety of others as their situation may affect. Yes, your patient is important which is why LEOs are there to watch not only your back but to see that everyone approaching that scene is safe.

Vent you need to quit acting so high and mighty. You are speaking of what you do not know and being rude while doing it. As IC I shut highways and busy interstates down when required. I make the call, I make the choice and it is not taken lightly. I never said I did not have help accomplishing what I ordered done. My actions are not for your or anyones convience, they are for peoples safety. I understand possible problems based on idiots getting frustrated that I just kept them from dieing, though they will never know that it was so serious.

 

[VentMedic]

Vent you need to quit acting so high and mighty. You are speaking of what you do not know and being rude while doing it. As IC I shut highways and busy interstates down when required. I make the call, I make the choice and it is not taken lightly. I never said I did not have help accomplishing what I ordered done. My actions are not for your or anyones convience, they are for peoples safety. I understand possible problems based on idiots getting frustrated that I just kept them from dieing, though they will never know that it was so serious.

Do not know? You are the one who obviously has little experience closing down a road in a city area and does not know the problems that accompany it.

Do you shut down the highways all by yourself? You are just one person. While you may call for the road to be closed, many agencies and their dispatchers are going to have to work to make that happen safely. Do you have any understanding about scene safety on a highway? Do you know what LEOs do to secure that road?

Your comments for not caring about my safety as my partner and I are coming in on a helicopter are exactly why I want to know LEOs are also there. You are too focused on yourself and your patient to care about anyone one else on that road way or on the approach. You also believe your job is the only one that is of importance. You seem to lack the inability to think in broader terms of protecting not only your patient but others as well.

So yeah, I'm a little rude when I know the one who thinks they are in control of the whole situation has not even considered those of us approaching from air or ground. Too bad you think my safety is just a "convenience".

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

LOL, Mike Galonos on CNN is having an absolute coronary over this! Interesting to listen to the law enforcement officers he has interviewed about this. Some LEO is going to be meeting the unemployment line after this, and then have there day in court when the family sue's.

Cant wait to watch this one unfold, as it will be WIDELY publicized no that ol' Mike Galonos has got ahold of it. That guy is worse then a pitbull with a chew toy

And Linuss he didn't finish his call, the call was SO important the other officer on scene canceled him. That's how he got back to the ambulance so quickly

 

[Shishkabob]

the call was SO important the other officer on scene canceled him.

Yes, because EMS has never been canceled in route to a priority 1 call...

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

You know after reading alot of the post across the net and on CNN/Fox news on TV, some interesting things come up.

1. The OHP is now refusing to say what kind of call the OHP was on other then to assist a county officer

2. They dont state if this particular OHP was the only other officer responding, which i highly doubt as there were probably at least a half dozen if not more responding if it was an actual call for help

3. Still almost a week later, no sign of the OHP dash cam video which they state shows the Medic assaulting him, even if it does show him assaulting him in the video the silence of not going public with it is just digging a deeper hole for the individual officer and the department as a whole.

 

[SauceyEMT]

You're a working, commissioned officer?

I'm a working (patrol division, and ATV unit member), fairly experienced (10 years this past January), proud, union, police officer who produces consistent, quality arrests, and despite what you may think, has a pretty good reputation for being an honest, hard working cop.

I work for a city police department, not a college, jail, etc. I'm not a whacker, a wannabe, or a poser. My views of the issues discussed obviously differ from yours, but that doesn't mean I'm a fake.

 

[reaper]

reaper, I just can not believe your arrogant and naive statements about shutting down a highway. Of course, you may live in rural nowhere where this only affects 3 cars for 12 hours.
When we shut down a highway we have alot of safety issues that EMS and Law Enforcement MUST be concerned about. There will be people doing unlawful driving to get around a scene. There will be U-turns and driving on the wrong side of the road. That also applies to rescue vehicles. You bet I want LEOs working with us at all exits to make sure our rescue and EMS personnel are not injured responding to the scene. As well, all dispatchers of various agencies will have to be notified of closures and alternative routes. That again applies to everyone, EMS and PD, because your emergency is not the only one and the world does not stop just for you.

In long road closures, tempers will be short and guess who has to deal with those situations while traffic is at a standstill?
Law Enforcement Officers.

Guess who will also be first on scene when someone getting overheated waiting for the road to open?
Law Enforcement Officers.

Guess who will have to make way for EMS to get to that emergency?
Law Enforcement Officers.

One little EMT can say the road has to be shut down, but it takes coordination from LEOs to make it happen safely for all involved.



My comments also go to you and I am experienced enough and have been through many road closures and evacuations from both a ground and an air point of view. This also goes along with several hurricane and flood situations which require cooperation from all.

While EMS and Fire concentrate on the immediate problem, LEOs have a broader area to cover to ensure your safety as well as that of many, many others.

Is there little wonder why some in EMS get little respect not only from FDs, LEOs and Healthcare professionals but also from each other? Some believe they are an island and all centers around themselves with no understanding or concerns for the safety of others as their situation may affect. Yes, your patient is important which is why LEOs are there to watch not only your back but to see that everyone approaching that scene is safe.

Excuse me! You need to stop reading into things that are not there. I never once mentioned anything about not using LEO,dispatch,FD, Flight crews or anyone else for highway closures. I was responding to one post that said the poster must be doing it wrong, if the highway was shut down for 2 hours.

I don't work rural systems. I have worked large city systems for quite a while. I have asked for the shut down of every major interstate in FL, so I think that is more then 3 cars in 12 hours. I have only had a handful of FHP ever give me a problem. It was resolved on scene and the work was commenced.

So before you go high and mighty on everyone, remember, you are not the only one with experience in large systems.

BTW, even with all the debates on here. I have never said that LEO is bad and EMS is good. I stated that both entities in this situation were wrong, but that the trooper took it to far!