Trooper vs. Paramedic

[medic417]

Do not know? You are the one who obviously has little experience closing down a road in a city area and does not know the problems that accompany it.

Do you shut down the highways all by yourself? You are just one person. While you may call for the road to be closed, many agencies and their dispatchers are going to have to work to make that happen safely. Do you have any understanding about scene safety on a highway? Do you know what LEOs do to secure that road?

Your comments for not caring about my safety as my partner and I are coming in on a helicopter are exactly why I want to know LEOs are also there. You are too focused on yourself and your patient to care about anyone one else on that road way or on the approach. You also believe your job is the only one that is of importance. You seem to lack the inability to think in broader terms of protecting not only your patient but others as well.

So yeah, I'm a little rude when I know the one who thinks they are in control of the whole situation has not even considered those of us approaching from air or ground. Too bad you think my safety is just a "convenience".

Actually you need to learn to read. I said IC so I am giving orders at mass casualty. That indicates many people involved in carrying out my orders. I am full well know what is scene safety for all involved. Our busy rural interstate has no way around unlike your city traffic that can just go a few blocks or miles out of the way. Out here if we divert in some places they will have to go several hours north or south then go east or west for an hour or two etc. Often a two hour wait is quicker than going around.

By doing the above I am protecting myself, my partner, LE, FF's, the public, and yes even the patients. Again in this discussion you are spouting off about what you do not know. You are pulling what pisses off so many a higher than everyone else attitude and personally I am in no mood to deal with it today.

 

[ffemt8978]

Can anyone guess what time it is?

 

[ffemt8978]

No charges to be filed

No charges to be filed against anyone involved in this incident.

This link http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=10486819 has links to the statements from the troopers and ambulance crew.

I have reopened this topic for the time being, so that the latest developments can be discussed in a civil manner.

 

[Ridryder911]

I was in multiple meetings all day yesterday of those representing the State as per education, administrators and even officials. Of course this was a hot subject and guessed that the final decision would be of that given.

It still is being investigated by the Creek Nation in which has their own laws that govern their units. As well the Paramedic & family has their own attorney at this time.

We all agreed it was uncalled for and tragic, more that the good name of OHP has been slandered for an undetermined amount of time.

We felt it was important though that some well intended medics proposed boycotting certain "made in Oklahoma" industries be discouraged doing so. Many of those industries support and give large amounts of money and support to rural EMS & without them many may suffer. So what would be the benefit of that?

We all were in agreement that hopefully this would ensure education of EMS within the Trooper Academy (as there is some in the academy enrolled in a EMT program) and that maybe SOP's be written in addressing EMS units while in service.

Yes, it was embarrassing and shameful and blackened the professions eye but hopefully something good will come out of this tragic event.

R/r 911

 

[Shishkabob]

Why single just the OHP? How about education on laws in the EMS schools, Rid?

The DA has come out and said that the medic assaulted the officer, so clearly they didn't go over assault/battery laws in his EMS school.



EDIT: woot, 1000 post.

 

[VentMedic]

Why single just the OHP? How about education on laws in the EMS schools, Rid?

The DA has come out and said that the medic assaulted the officer, so clearly they didn't go over assault/battery laws in his EMS school.

I gotta agree there. Some of the just out right hateful posts on several EMS forums have fueled a mindset that is just shameful. I haven't heard "kill the pigs" comments since the early 70s but have had the misfortune of seeing these words of hatred coming from those who are supposed professionals in EMS. Even the remarks of "just wait till one of them is shot or injured and needs EMS", are just not something anyone wearing a patch of public service or medicine should be making.

 

[Ridryder911]

The only education I could provide would to be more alert on trooper autos exceeding the speed limit and failure to yield. The second is NOT to resist arrest as the law clearly states if anyone interferes with a medic while performing care or touches the medic in a harmful state, is to be charged with a felony as well. Take the arrest and notify your supervisor of the situation so another unit could be called then..... sue them for all their retirement and personal financial losses. Then ensure that part of the settlement would be new education and training.

The only assault to the trooper only occurred when the medic would not allow the Trooper to enter his patient compartment, in which I totally agree with. Patient privacy and the trooper had NO reason to ever enter it. No regard was placed from the troopers point of view or action(s).

The trooper had NO business opening the patient compartment nor had any authorization or permission to do so. No warrants or probable cause.

Although, I definitely do not want to blast LEO for their job nor agree or condone the remarks by medics as I too think it was unprofessional I do believe the medics acted professionally and kept their demeanor.

Those in law enforcement will have to recognize, that they are not the only ones that also cannot have an unwanted touch or interference. Technically, the Trooper should had been arrested on site as well as violating several laws.

They know better and no excuses of pulling over a unit for a misdemeanor that could had been handled at the hospital.

Alike I said, this will not be the last. Personally, I believe this trooper is a disgrace of the profession and the state. He should be discharged for his actions and allow litigation occur from his own personal estate.

R/r 911

 

[ffemt8978]

The only education I could provide would to be more alert on trooper autos exceeding the speed limit and failure to yield. The second is NOT to resist arrest as the law clearly states if anyone interferes with a medic while performing care or touches the medic in a harmful state, is to be charged with a felony as well. Take the arrest and notify your supervisor of the situation so another unit could be called then..... sue them for all their retirement and personal financial losses. Then ensure that part of the settlement would be new education and training.

The only assault to the trooper only occurred when the medic would not allow the Trooper to enter his patient compartment, in which I totally agree with. Patient privacy and the trooper had NO reason to ever enter it. No regard was placed from the troopers point of view or action(s).

The trooper had NO business opening the patient compartment nor had any authorization or permission to do so. No warrants or probable cause.

Although, I definitely do not want to blast LEO for their job nor agree or condone the remarks by medics as I too think it was unprofessional I do believe the medics acted professionally and kept their demeanor.

Those in law enforcement will have to recognize, that they are not the only ones that also cannot have an unwanted touch or interference. Technically, the Trooper should had been arrested on site as well as violating several laws.

They know better and no excuses of pulling over a unit for a misdemeanor that could had been handled at the hospital.

Alike I said, this will not be the last. Personally, I believe this trooper is a disgrace of the profession and the state. He should be discharged for his actions and allow litigation occur from his own personal estate.

R/r 911

So here's a question...would you also charge the medic for abandoning his patient by stepping out of the rig and leaving her inside with nobody to monitor her?

 

[Shishkabob]

From the video shown, I did not see a single instance of the LEO opening the patient compartment. I saw the medic open it multiple times, and one of those times step out and leave his patient.


As for "interfering with patient care and it's a felony"--- again, not true. Cops are exempt from many laws, including this one IN THIS INSTANCE, when in the process of carrying out their official duties. He LAWFULLY pulled the ambulance over. Whether or not you agree with that statement means bupkiss-- it was lawful. Period.

The DA said the medic assaulted the trooper. I see no mention of the trooper assaulting the medic. Want to know why? Once someone lays a hand on you, it's no longer assault on your behalf. And, on top of that, police are allowed to use physical force to control a suspect, which is exactly what they did in the video.


Thirdly, how can you say the medic kept his professionalism, when, AGAIN, he assaulted the cop first? Assaulting a LEO is now considered professional and keeping your demeanor?

 

[reaper]

From the video shown, I did not see a single instance of the LEO opening the patient compartment. I saw the medic open it multiple times, and one of those times step out and leave his patient.


As for "interfering with patient care and it's a felony"--- again, not true. Cops are exempt from many laws, including this one IN THIS INSTANCE, when in the process of carrying out their official duties. He LAWFULLY pulled the ambulance over. Whether or not you agree with that statement means bupkiss-- it was lawful. Period.
The DA said the medic assaulted the trooper. I see no mention of the trooper assaulting the medic. Want to know why? Once someone lays a hand on you, it's no longer assault on your behalf. And, on top of that, police are allowed to use physical force to control a suspect, which is exactly what they did in the video.


Thirdly, how can you say the medic kept his professionalism, when, AGAIN, he assaulted the cop first? Assaulting a LEO is now considered professional and keeping your demeanor?

Show me the law? Leo are not exempt from any laws. They are allowed act differently in their duties, But are not exempt for the laws. They have no lawful right to enter the pt compartment of an ambulance, for any reason. Can they enter? Yes. If they first ask permission or feel that a life is at danger. I have never had an LEO enter my unit, without first asking permission. Because most LEO have respect and know that they are not above the law, period!

 

[Shishkabob]

I have never had an LEO enter my unit, without first asking permission. Because most LEO have respect and know that they are not above the law, period!

First--- Most of us WILL do respectful things, before using our authority to get something done. This goes for LEOs as well as EMS and fire. But if they have a need to get in your unit, you bet your but they will, whether your agree or not, because they have that authority.




Second-- Exempt from does not mean above of. Like I said-- as long as they are doing it strictly for their official duties, they are exempt.


Otherwise, they can't buy drugs in stings. They can't sell drugs. They can't speed to a call. They can't drive through a stop light. They can't carry a firearm throughout all 50 states. They can't control traffic. They can't point guns at people. They can't drive on the opposite side of the road. They can't arrest prostitutes. They can't act as prostitutes. They can't carry possess drugs at any point.


Do you really need me to continue with how they are exempt?

 

[HotelCo]

Do you really need me to continue with how they are exempt?

Yes.
(10char)

 

[reaper]

No, what I need is to see this law that gives them this great authority?

And no, they do not get in my unit, if I don't agree!

 

[Shishkabob]

No, what I need is to see this law that gives them this great authority?

Oh, so cops AREN'T allowed to do all those things I just stated?

Well crap, guess we need to arrest all cops than... for you know, doing their job and everything.

 

[reaper]

If you can not produce a law, that is fine. Just stop playing LEO, unless you can provide evidence to show us.

 

[Shishkabob]

If you can not produce a law, that is fine. Just stop playing LEO, unless you can provide evidence to show us.

I don't need to provide a law to prove this, as I just gave you evidence proving it.

So, as the reciprocal-

Unless you can prove that they CAN'T do all that I just stated, then you need to stop arguing otherwise.

 

[reaper]

We are here to have an adult discussion. That means providing proof of what you are stating. Opinions, everyone has. When debating a subject, it is up to you to back up your statements. I am just asking for the proof of said statements!

I am walking away from this one, as it is heading toward a lock, again!

 

[ffemt8978]

Okay, I've had enough of this. I reopened this thread so that we could discuss the fact that charges were not being filed...not so that we could discuss the laws that allow LEO's (or EMS for that matter) to do their jobs.

This thread is now permanently closed...never to be reopened or visited again regardless of what happens.

 

[Ridryder911]

OHP releases dash cam

Dash cam is released.

http://www.kwtv.com/global/story.asp?s=10526689

 

[JPINFV]

All that over, what, a 5 second delay in pulling over? Seriously, someone give that trooper a sedative.


Edit: In before the "Cops can do no harm vs cops are little devils" fight, and the resulting lock.