Trooper vs. Paramedic

[Ridryder911]

It is with great shame that I place this. This occurred within my state. I have several friends and co-workers of the OHP and represent the service proudly. It is unfortunate, that there apperantly is a few bad apples out there.

From the rumor (although it came from a good source) is that the EMS unit was transporting a patient to the hospital and OHP passed the unit while responding to an assist another LEO. The OHP seeing that the EMS unit did not fully stop, decided to stop the EMS unit.

I will not state any more as this is still under investigation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluItc365hU

 

[Shishkabob]

My initial impression is there is obviously more then JUST this incident, as I have never seen or heard of an officer arresting an EMS person for running a red light.

My money is on the guy has a warrant of some kind. The trooper was arresting the guy that was in the back of the rig, not the (assumed)driver who he was speaking to.

But he also allowed the EMT/Medic to finish the transport-- "I told you you're under arrest, now get the patient to the hospital".




But the fact that he pulled away and tried to fight the cops off instantly puts him in the wrong. There is no other way around that.



But we'll wait till more info comes out.

 

[reaper]

Sorry, I don't stop for anyone.

We had a similar incident here. That trooper is now somewhere in the Arctic, writing tickets to polar bears!

 

[Ridryder911]

Sorry, I don't stop for anyone.

We had a similar incident here. That trooper is now somewhere in the Arctic, writing tickets to polar bears!

If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of a flush. Let's see a Native American Ambulance, staffed with Black Paramedic and family and white troopers?

I too do not believe this is over yet.

 

[reaper]

Nothing warranted the attempted arrest. The trooper should be arrested for interfering with EMS. They had a pt in the back, he interfered with the care.

He could have just followed them to the hospital and dealt with it after the pt was transfered over!

 

[VentMedic]

Sorry, I don't stop for anyone.

I definitely stop long enough to find out the problem and if it is a traffic issue, I ask for it to be deferred until after the transport is over. There have been occasions where we have been stopped for something wrong with the truck such as a loose dual or someone left equipment unsecured. For that I am very greatful.

If the driver is doing something very stupid, for the safety of the patient it might be wise to stop that truck to tell the driver to get control of himself or see if that driver is impaired. BTW, how many drivers of ambulances have been found to be impaired that are behind the wheel? At least the ones we know about because they made the EMS news wire? That is sad. It is a LEO's job to keep everyone safe and EMS is not above the law. Of course when it is minor, the problem should wait until after the transport is finished. This is actually the way it is handled most often.

Do you know how much stupid stuff people driving ambulances do? When I was supervising I spent more time talking to drivers and PD about tickets for stuff I was embarrassed that someone the company had given the responsibility of their truck and lives of the patient and crew would risk all of them usually to show off or just lack of better sense.

So no, PD intervening can be very necessary at times.

 

[Tincanfireman]

I too do not believe this is over yet.

Rid, can you please let us know how this turns out when all is said and done? I'll be amazed if this doesn't end up on the network news by tonight, though...

 

[SauceyEMT]

Well, as is usually the case, we only see part of the incident. We don't see what prompted the stop, or the altercation. As a police officer, unless some crazy felony occured, I certainly would have allowed the ambulance to continue transport, and then took the medic into custody at the hospital.

With that said, despite what people may think, it is illegal to resist arrest, whether or not you believe the arrest to be lawful. If you're being placed under arrest, it's not open for debate. Go with the program, and if it turns out later to be unlawful, you'll have recourse, but if everyone who thought they shouldnt be arrested, fought, I'd be dropping people on their heads every day.

In my area, police and EMS work together great, and we rarely have issues. Hell, we are out drinking together regularly. We both have our jobs to do, and when something like this happens, it looks bad for everyone.

Both the Troopers and medics made poor decisions here, but as is usually the case, based on partial information, and general dislike for police, the Troopers will likely shoulder the blame, whether or not it is fact correct.

 

[SauceyEMT]

Nothing warranted the attempted arrest. The trooper should be arrested for interfering with EMS. They had a pt in the back, he interfered with the care.

He could have just followed them to the hospital and dealt with it after the pt was transfered over!

While I agree that he could have dealt with it at the hospital, neither you or I know what precipitated the stop. Don't pretend to know what triggered everything that happened.

The problem is that every profession seems to stick to their own, whether or not they're correct. Firefighters do it, cops do it, and EMS do it. Everyone makes excuses for their own. If a firefighter gets in the ****, his peers excuse it, it's the same everywhere, but it doesnt make it right.

 

[ClarkKent]

Please do keep us posted on the out come of this

Rid, can you please let us know how this turns out when all is said and done? I'll be amazed if this doesn't end up on the network news by tonight, though...

 

[mikie]

Whats will all the Police/EMS tension lately?!

And since when did cops start putting their hands around people's necks?? Anyone else notice that?

On a side note...great videographer:

I got you some evidence, that's all

 

[reaper]

While I agree that he could have dealt with it at the hospital, neither you or I know what precipitated the stop. Don't pretend to know what triggered everything that happened.

The problem is that every profession seems to stick to their own, whether or not they're correct. Firefighters do it, cops do it, and EMS do it. Everyone makes excuses for their own. If a firefighter gets in the ****, his peers excuse it, it's the same everywhere, but it doesnt make it right.

I don't care what warranted the stop! He had a pt in the back and that is first priority.

 

[VentMedic]

I don't care what warranted the stop! He had a pt in the back and that is first priority.

And if the driver was doing something stupid that was not caught on camera, that LEO has a responsibility not only to the public but to that patient in back. If there was a complaint about that ambulance called in, that LEO has a responsibility to investigate, again for the safety of the public and that patient. I have seen too much stupid stuff happen at the fault of the driver's lack of common or good sense that can easily endanger the crew and the patient. Quite possibly if some in EMS would stop making excuses and not be afraid to admit when their partners are a little unsafe to be with for driving or substance abuse reasons, we might have a few less MVCs involving ambulances. Less patients might even die from ambulance collisions.

 

[reaper]

Then they follow them to the hospital. Radio in to their dispatch. There are plenty of ways to deal with any problem.

I am not defending what the EMS crew did, I don't know. I will also not defend the troopers. Video evidence alone, shows they went over board.

 

[VentMedic]

Then they follow them to the hospital. Radio in to their dispatch. There are plenty of ways to deal with any problem.

I am not defending what the EMS crew did, I don't know. I will also not defend the troopers. Video evidence alone, shows they went over board.

We don't know what happened prior to the time of the video.

We don't know what the LEO found on when he ran a DL check.

We don't know how many violations this driver has had.

We don't know if he was impaired in some way especially with his combativeness.

We do not know all of the conversation and what the LEO may have discovered to lead him to make the arrest. The driver could even have been armed since we have already heard about that from another thread.

This appears to be a little more than a traffic stop.

This video was done from a lay person's perspective with another agenda.

The LEO also may have had a concern for his own safety with people jumping in and out of the ambulance.

If this driver knows he is going to jail or may have a previous arrest warrant out on him, do you think he is going to drive "safely" to the hospital with this patient?

Too many unknowns but by the way the driver was fighting, I would be in favor of the LEOs.

If this driver was not driving an ambulance, he probably would have been in cuffs long before it got as far as it did.

Having an EMT patch does not give you the right to hit a Police Officer.

 

[reaper]

We don't know what happened prior to the time of the video.

We don't know what the LEO found on when he ran a DL check.
Nothing on a DL check will warrant the behavior!
We don't know how many violations this driver has had.
Again, Does not warrant behavior!
We don't know if he was impaired in some way especially with his combativeness.
Must not have been, since they were allowed to continue!
We do not know all of the conversation and what the LEO may have discovered to lead him to make the arrest. The driver could even have been armed since we have already heard about that from another thread.
Again, doubt that, since they let him go!
This appears to be a little more than a traffic stop.
We agree on that!
This video was done from a lay person's perspective with another agenda.
I see nothing wrong with the video!

The LEO also may have had a concern for his own safety with people jumping in and out of the ambulance.
May have been!
If this driver knows he is going to jail or may have a previous arrest warrant out on him, do you think he is going to drive "safely" to the hospital with this patient? Again, doubt that was it, since he was let go!
Too many unknowns but by the way the driver was fighting, I would be in favor of the LEOs.
I would fight to, if they were interfering with pt care.

If this driver was not driving an ambulance, he probably would have been in cuffs long before it got as far as it did.
Probably!
Having an EMT patch does not give you the right to hit a Police Officer. I saw nothing in the video, where he hit the trooper??

Again, it could have been handled differently all around. I personally don't agree with the way LEO handled the situation from the start.

 

[reaper]

Officials say OHP troopers became upset after the paramedic failed to yield while the troopers were rushing to a call of their own.

Here is a quote from the article. So they were upset that a unit running code to the hospital, would not yield for them. Throws out all the worries, that they were driving eraticly. The troopers could have just passed them!

 

[VentMedic]

My mistake it was the other attendant that go into the physical scuffle.

The video did not show everything. Could the one holding the camera chose NOT to show all? There were several seconds we did not see because the camera was aimed at the ground.

Too many unknowns but by the way the driver was fighting, I would be in favor of the LEOs.
I would fight to, if they were interfering with pt care.

Fight for your patient? Against the PD? I guess this could be another example for Melclin as to how EMS gets along with others by violence.

Ever hear of scene safety? You do not become the aggressor and "fight" someone carrying a gun especially if they have a badge. That would be extremely poor judgment on your part and would be of no benefit to your patient.

Of course, if you had a gun, would you have pulled it on this officer and demanded to carry on your way?

Here is a quote from the article. So they were upset that a unit running code to the hospital, would not yield for them. Throws out all the worries, that they were driving eraticly. The troopers could have just passed them!

Why were they running code to the hospital? Were they behind schedule?

What type of road was it? Would they have been able to pass safely without endangering themselves and the ambulance? We don't know how fast the ambulance was going either.

What is with all the negativity toward PD?

Don't they also pull over if they see you coming? Won't most even guard an intersection for you? Don't they deserve a little respect also?

 

[reaper]

By fight, I mean resist. I would explain the situation to the trooper and if he did not understand, then he would get a supervisor there and I would explain it to them. If then and only then, they did not seem to get it. Yes, I would fight the man with the badge. I do not stand back for brutality issues. They have became more rampant lately.

You know that there has been many situations lately, where the god complex has led some officers to over react. They are there to enforce the law, not make their own and not pass judgement.

 

[VentMedic]

You know that there has been many situations lately, where the god complex has led some officers to over react. They are there to enforce the law, not make their own and not pass judgement.

And we don't have that in EMS?

Read the threads on the forums.

How many have posted that they believe they are ENTITLED to a free pass from the law whether they are in the ambulance or POV because of their EMT patch? How many wear their "t-shirts" 24/7 thinking it will get them extra perks everywhere they go?