Training to be certified in First Aid/CPR/AED ?'s

[EDAC]

Good for you

I was raised to always be willing to help someone if you can. I think if you have training and you can provide assistance there is really no reason why you should'nt. Just because you don't have to or are not paid to do so, does not mean you should not. I think sometimes we forget about just being human and doing for others because it is the right thing to do. Many people have lost their lives helping others who needed assistance, even if it was not their job. We have become such a callous society, if its not our problem, just ingnore it, don't get involved, or wait for someone else to do something. I have witnessed a few accidents and have always stopped to offer assistance even if it is just a kind word, or just for them to know that some one does care about their situation. Kindness should not be difficult, it should come from the heart, and be done not for compensation, but because it is the right thing to do. If you expect something in return, then you probably just move along and not stop.

 

[Melclin]

It would appear that way, yes.

However, you all do it a little differently "down south". In the USA, many off-duty EMT's elect to have their own equipment to use. The problem lies in that most have no medical direction in their off duty time, have no duty to act, and usually are not protected under their departments insurance policy should an issue arise. Then there is also the view of immediate need. Is that EMT a help or a hinderance?

Yeah fair enough about the medical direction thing I suppose. I don't really understand alot about your systems, but I can't see that there would be that much direction involved in some BLS or basic trauma care. Still like I said, I know bugger all about how your system works. Is there some sort of resource through which I could learn about some of the basics on which the American systems are built? We covered it a bit at university, but I get the feeling it was a bit biased.

As far as insurance goes, well different cultures again. The idea that helping someone might be thrown back in your face legally is foreign to me. The "Good Samaritan" (whether they be a trained health professional or not) acting reasonably in good faith is protected by law here.

shot

Oh golly, haha, not something we worry about too much here. With the very occasional exception, if you happen to be a dutch tourist ...I shouldn't laugh..poor bugger.

Trev, mate, if you wanna help people out who are in trouble, good for you, keep it up. Just be careful, with the gear, and make sure you know how to use it.

 

[mycrofft]

Dang, some harsh replies there.

Yes, Mikie, you are a whacker if you keep that new car with the big first aid kit. I can save you from that, we can meet tomorrow and trade pink slips, you will like my 1999 Volvo much more, and I promise ther are no preparedness materials in there.
Probably.B)

 

[JPINFV]

There seems to be this odd culture on this board of doing/having the barest of minimums and doing otherwise makes you some kind of tryhard/nerd-whacker.

There's a difference between owning a properly stocked first aid kit (really only need the basics. ACE bandages, band aids, gauze, maybe an ice pack, etc) and having a bag that turns a POV into a first response unit. Basically if you can't pick it up at CVS, Rite Aid, or any other store that provides basic first aid supplies, then you really don't need it for personal use.

Maybe you'll never "need" some of that stuff. But if you happen to get into a situation where it would have been handy to have, but the person would have lived without it, then I reckon you'd still get a nice feeling from having there.

The problem is that you really don't need most of that stuff anyways. You don't need 15 splints, 40 4x4s, burn sheets, DI water or saline, or most of the other stuff on an ambulance. You don't need a collar, most cars have supplies that can be jerry rigged into a splint if need be. You don't need a BVM (pocket mask is easier to pack and less expensive), and you don't need O2. Want something with sugar, carry a power bar or something. Besides, most of those supplies are not the difference between life and death and not really all that important until it comes time to move the patient.

If money isn't too much of an issue, then I don't see why it wouldn't be nice to just have it there. And as far as the stethoscope issue goes (I don't think it was really part of your question Trev, but marineman mentioned it and my sentiments can be generalised to more than stethoscopes), the better the stethoscope, the more likely you are to hear things that matter and that aren't background noise (shocking I know). If you asked a builder about his drill, I bet not too many buy a $20 set from K-Mart. It's a tool of your trade that you use almost everyday, and if you take pride in doing what you do well, then you should have good quality equipment to do it with, I reckon. I know that you don't "need" a master cardiology to take blood pressure, but if someone wants to have one for the odd occasion when it may come in handy, then good on them. I don't know why some of the people on this bored walk around with a scope made by matel and think they are somehow cooler for it.

There's a few big difference between a builder having a fancy drill and EMTs (B/P, but especially B) having fancy spancy steths. First, the builder is, in many cases, is expected to supply some of their own equipment. EMS, in general, is not really expected to supply anything more than a pair of shears, which in many cases is supplied in jump bags and on the ambulance anyways.

Second, in order to appropriately compare EMTs carrying equipment off duty and the builder, the builder would need to be prepared to stop at any construction site or at any house doing home maintenance and offer his/her services for free to the construction site or homeowner. I doubt that this happens all that much.

 

[Shishkabob]

Second, in order to appropriately compare EMTs carrying equipment off duty and the builder, the builder would need to be prepared to stop at any construction site or at any house doing home maintenance and offer his/her services for free to the construction site or homeowner. I doubt that this happens all that much.

Because building a house and holding C-spine are SOOO alike.

 

[JPINFV]

The only supplies you need to hold c-spine is a pair of gloves, not a wacker kit. Besides, the biggest difference between holding c-spine and building a house is that building a house is actually useful whereas the jury is still very much out on spinal precautions.

 

[Shishkabob]

The only supplies you need to hold c-spine is a pair of gloves, not a wacker kit. Besides, the biggest difference between holding c-spine and building a house is that building a house is actually useful whereas the jury is still very much out on spinal precautions.

You don't need a house to live, you need a proper spinal alignment to live.

 

[JPINFV]

Please cite journal articles that show the efficacy of spinal immbolization in regards ot the prevention of secondary spinal injury.

 

[Flight-LP]

I was raised to always be willing to help someone if you can. I think if you have training and you can provide assistance there is really no reason why you should'nt. Just because you don't have to or are not paid to do so, does not mean you should not. I think sometimes we forget about just being human and doing for others because it is the right thing to do. Many people have lost their lives helping others who needed assistance, even if it was not their job. We have become such a callous society, if its not our problem, just ingnore it, don't get involved, or wait for someone else to do something. I have witnessed a few accidents and have always stopped to offer assistance even if it is just a kind word, or just for them to know that some one does care about their situation. Kindness should not be difficult, it should come from the heart, and be done not for compensation, but because it is the right thing to do. If you expect something in return, then you probably just move along and not stop.

No offense my friend, but spoken like a true student...................

Re-visit this topic with a few years of reality under your belt and see if your opinion changes. There are a multitude of reasons why off duty assistance is not given. These include, but are not limited to:

Liability
Safety
Liability
Safety
Liability
Safety

You get the picture. Many of us know we risk pesonal safety, possibly family safety if they are with us. Also, many EMT's and Paramedics are NOT covered under applicable insurance unbrellas for off duty responses. You also do not fall under most good samaritan laws as you are a trained medical responder and probably identified as such. To add to the enjoyment of hungry lawyers out there, if you are a Paramedic and do not perform care to your level of training on a scene, you are open and subject to scrutiny in court. Think it doesn't happen? Think again my friend. Ask other veterans on this site, I think you will find similar thoughts.

Its not that we are horrible people. But society has made us protect our interests. My family and financial security are my top priority behind my faith in Christ. Sorry if you see it as "calloused", I am extremely kindhearted and caring towards my patients, but I will not set out on a crusade to save the world. Nor will "kindness from the heart" put $$$ in my bank account. This isn't my hobby, this is my career......................

 

[EDAC]

No offense my friend, but spoken like a true student...................

Re-visit this topic with a few years of reality under your belt and see if your opinion changes. There are a multitude of reasons why off duty assistance is not given. These include, but are not limited to:

Liability
Safety
Liability
Safety
Liability
Safety

You get the picture. Many of us know we risk pesonal safety, possibly family safety if they are with us. Also, many EMT's and Paramedics are NOT covered under applicable insurance unbrellas for off duty responses. You also do not fall under most good samaritan laws as you are a trained medical responder and probably identified as such. To add to the enjoyment of hungry lawyers out there, if you are a Paramedic and do not perform care to your level of training on a scene, you are open and subject to scrutiny in court. Think it doesn't happen? Think again my friend. Ask other veterans on this site, I think you will find similar thoughts.

Its not that we are horrible people. But society has made us protect our interests. My family and financial security are my top priority behind my faith in Christ. Sorry if you see it as "calloused", I am extremely kindhearted and caring towards my patients, but I will not set out on a crusade to save the world. Nor will "kindness from the heart" put $$$ in my bank account. This isn't my hobby, this is my career......................

Money can be repalced, a human life cannot.

 

[JPINFV]

Oh sweet idealism. How sweet thy are yet how hard thy falls.

 

[EDAC]

Oh sweet idealism. How sweet thy are yet how hard thy falls.

OK, whatever.

Could'nt you be held liable if the coin were reversed? Say for example you came upon an accident scene and because of the liability you may suffer, you keep on truckin'. Someone who knows you, sees you and knows your training, asks why if you could provide assistance you did not. The accident victims family gets wind of it and sues you for not helping knowing you were there and could have helped and did nothing. Is not that a possibility as well? We are held accountable everyday for what we do as well as what we do not do.

 

[JPINFV]

Sure, some areas have a duty to respond even when off duty. Of course the chance of being recognized is next to zero unless your car is decked out with EMT stickers. The motto of that story is don't advertise that you're an EMT.

Of course if you stop and get injured then you are out of work without workman's comp and your family has no income. You fall behind on your mortgage payments, your house is foreclosed on, and your family is now homeless. But, hey, money is replaceable, right? All of that to stop on a scene where the vast majority of time any injuries would require tools not available in even the wacker packs (access to the patient, extrication, the ability to transport, etc). Even then, very few incidents are incidents where injuries are life threatening in the span of seconds or minutes.

 

[EDAC]

You could be injured to the point of not being able to work just by walking out the door each day. Granted you shpould not help the situation along, by doing something to put yourself in harms way. But I just do not think helping someone in need qualifies. And yes money is replaceable, and if it is your guiding light of life, that's unfortunate. Its not mine, it used to be, but not anymore.

 

[JPINFV]

Granted you shpould not help the situation along, by doing something to put yourself in harms way. But I just do not think helping someone in need qualifies.

Are you honestly suggesting that situations where other people are in need are free from danger?

I agree that money is not the guiding light, but it is still pretty damn important and shouldn't be discounted. Otherwise remember that statement next time you go to your boss for a raise.

 

[EDAC]

Are you honestly suggesting that situations where other people are in need are free from danger?

That is not what I was saying at all.

I agree that money is not the guiding light, but it is still pretty damn important and shouldn't be discounted. Otherwise remember that statement next time you go to your boss for a raise.

I do not have a boss (unless you count my wife), and everytime I needed a raise, I did what was necessary, longer hours, more days, more customer contacts, & fewer non-necessities. Money is the easiest thing in the world to get, it can be done with little education, or formal training, just go where others are making it and begin there. For the most part it is as easy as a good work ethic, dedication and a relentless drive for it.

 

[Sasha]

Money can be repalced, a human life cannot.

A human life cannot, exactly. But let's think of it this way, what if it's YOUR life that can't be replaced?

Here are two examples of bystanders who rendered aid getting killed, I'm sure others here can provide more. The first one hits VERY close to home.

http://warchild.blog-city.com/biketoberfest_deaths_sad_tragic_random.htm


http://fallenbrothers.com/community/archive/index.php/t-2275.html

 

[reaper]

Superman syndrome! Out to save the whole world.

 

[EDAC]

A human life cannot, exactly. But let's think of it this way, what if it's YOUR life that can't be replaced?

Here are two examples of bystanders who rendered aid getting killed, I'm sure others here can provide more. The first one hits VERY close to home.

http://warchild.blog-city.com/biketoberfest_deaths_sad_tragic_random.htm


http://fallenbrothers.com/community/archive/index.php/t-2275.html

Very sad, indeed and an excellent point.

 

[EDAC]

Superman syndrome! Out to save the whole world.

A bit to the extreme, is'nt it? I don't recall reading anywhere where anyone claimed to be superhuman or to save the world. As I recall it was about assisting those in need, and whether or not it should be done. It just would'nt be a complete day without taking a shot at another member(s).

Why can't someone make an arguement without some form belittlement? Sasha made a very good point along with some very sobering examples which are very thought provoking. An excellent way to make a meaningful point.