Local cop on who's team?

[socalmedic]

CHP= "Triple A with guns" as my LA County Sheriff friend would say

I have even less respect for the LASO (yes, this is a blanket statement), they are armed and dangerous. I would be afraid of them shooting me for speeding, but they have a rather large Hx of missing their target and hitting civilians and each other...:wacko:

 

[TransportJockey]

I've been a NJ EMT for 20+ years, Lt in my Volly squad, and now paid EMS.
Traveling in an Ambulance, in route to a 911 call for an injured NUN, secondary lights on, no siren...I was pulled over by a Morris Twp NJ cop named Ornstadt. Believe it or not he wrote me a ticket for 49 in a 35mph zone at the bottom of a significant hill.
What team is this cop on?
I took the ticket to court and the Procecutor wasn't surprised at all. I didn't even have to tell him the cops name. He said this cop would give his grandmother a ticket for going too slow.
Com'on Ornstadt. You know how fast that went around? Good luck when you need EMS to come rescue your ***.

In most states you're not legally running code without your siren, so he's well within his rights to ticket you. Hope you learn from it

 

[rwik123]

yeah thats a sticky situation.

In MA cops seem to drive beyond reckless, even if its not an emergency. If there are any people from MA looking here, i guarantee you can recall being talegating by a state cop. They talegate constantly.. stupidly close the bumper of your car, looking for you to let them pass. Also they constantly go 100+ non emergency... maybe a power trip? Who knows

all in all I don't think you should have been penalized if you were not endangering the safety of anyone

 

[hocomedic]

in howard county md all the cops speed like their doing nothing wrong, one time i was doing 65 in a 55 and a cop flew by me doing about 100 and i saw that he was looking at his laptop and not the road. They also tailgate here like crazy, they do this because they are looking for a reason to pull you over. One night i was speeding a little and i have a radar detector, which is legal in maryland. anyway i look back and i say the cop head lights behind me and i was like ahh :censored:. my detector didn't go off, and yes it is a nice and expensive one that actually works. I think that he saw the line of red letters on my windshield and he knew that he didn't have a reason to pull me over. so he followed me, sometimes about 2 or so feet behind me, to the point of i cant see his headlights over the tailgate of my truck. he followed me for about 7 miles just waiting for me to :censored: up, but my brother told me one time if they ever do that just be calm and do everything right and to use your turn signal way in advanced of a turn. well after about 15 min of him following me and me about to :censored: my self, cause this would be my first ticket. he finally just pulled to the side of my truck, looked at me and drove away, way over the speed limit.

i hate how cops think they can do what ever they want.

 

[ffemt8978]

In most states you're not legally running code without your siren, so he's well within his rights to ticket you. Hope you learn from it

It appears to be the same in New Jersey based upon New Jersey Motor Vehicle Code 39:4-91 which states

9:4-91. a. The driver of a vehicle upon a highway shall yield the right of way to any authorized emergency vehicle when it is operated on official business, or in the exercise of the driver's profession or calling, in response to an emergency call or in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law and when an audible signal by bell, siren, exhaust whistle or other means is sounded from the authorized emergency vehicle and when the authorized emergency vehicle, except a police vehicle, is equipped with at least one lighted lamp displaying a red light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of at least five hundred feet to the front of the vehicle.

Highlighted for emphasis, especially the word AND which means ambulances must have both operating to qualify for the emergency vehicle exemption. A little bit more digging turned up New Jersey Motor Vehicle Code 39:3-54:12 which states

6.Nothing contained herein is intended to grant to any member of a volunteer fire company, a volunteer first aid or rescue squad or a volunteer Office of Emergency Management any privileges or exemptions denied to the drivers of other vehicles, and such members operating emergency warning lights shall drive with due regard for the safety of all persons and shall obey all the traffic laws of this State ...

 

[jjesusfreak01]

I think in my county if a cop tried to pull me over while I was running code, it would be a quick call to dispatch by the driver or attendant and the cop would find himself being chewed out by his supervisor.

 

[ffemt8978]

Off topic posts removed. Keep it on topic and let's not turn this into another LEO bashing thread or I will give some people forum vacations.

 

[Newsboy]

this has happened twice to me, while responding code 3 (L+S). once to a call, once to the hospital. both involved the highway patrol. first call was rush hour and i took the freeway hard sholder (btw, not illegal), cop wanted to lecture me about how dangerous that was. I let him follow me all the way to the scene . the second time we where transporting an auto-ped TC to the trauma center (patient was messed up something bad) again rush hour and i cut through the state inspection station (weigh station) and used their "private" exit ramp to get to surface streets. this time there was damn near a whole battalion of CHP behind me, again I allowed them to follow me to the hospital (10-15min) they took one look at the patient and walked back to his car pissed off with out saying anything h34r:. I am not a big fan of the California Highway Patrol.

Haha I was an explorer cadet for CHP. Every officer I ever rode with would never do that. Heck they would always take back roads to assure EMS beat us to any accident. They loved all the EMS guys

 

[looker]

this has happened twice to me, while responding code 3 (L+S). once to a call, once to the hospital. both involved the highway patrol. first call was rush hour and i took the freeway hard sholder (btw, not illegal), cop wanted to lecture me about how dangerous that was. I let him follow me all the way to the scene . the second time we where transporting an auto-ped TC to the trauma center (patient was messed up something bad) again rush hour and i cut through the state inspection station (weigh station) and used their "private" exit ramp to get to surface streets. this time there was damn near a whole battalion of CHP behind me, again I allowed them to follow me to the hospital (10-15min) they took one look at the patient and walked back to his car pissed off with out saying anything h34r:. I am not a big fan of the California Highway Patrol.

It all depends on officer. I got off speeding doing 84 in 65 by giving cop my business card It all depends who is pulling you over.

 

[i5adam8]

In most states you're not legally running code without your siren, so he's well within his rights to ticket you. Hope you learn from it

This brings up an interesting point. In the Municipality that I work in we have a local village ordinance that prohibits the use of sirens after 11pm so we are limited to using lights only at that point. Of course neither I nor any members of my Department have encountered any legal issues as of yet with this ordinance but it does raise an interesting point. I'm not positive,but I do believe my State does require the use of both emergency lights and sirens to be legally running code.

 

[JPINFV]

This brings up an interesting point. In the Municipality that I work in we have a local village ordinance that prohibits the use of sirens after 11pm so we are limited to using lights only at that point. Of course neither I nor any members of my Department have encountered any legal issues as of yet with this ordinance but it does raise an interesting point. I'm not positive,but I do believe my State does require the use of both emergency lights and sirens to be legally running code.

Wouldn't the state traffic code preempt any city ordinance?

 

[TransportJockey]

It should. Federal preepmts state which preempts local

Wouldn't the state traffic code preempt any city ordinance?

 

[jrm818]

But wouldn't that just mean that the local jurisdiction has functionally banned running emergent, unless there is some obligation to run emergent to or from emergencies in the state law?

 

[Shishkabob]

But wouldn't that just mean that the local jurisdiction has functionally banned running emergent, unless there is some obligation to run emergent to or from emergencies in the state law?

No.

If you're running code, you're running code. If, for some reason, you get in trouble from the city for running code out of their preferred times, it will go to court. And believe you me, if it gets out to the public that the city / court fines you for running emergent, there will be hell to pay from the public.


Like I said, in Texas, there isn't a single law governing how and what you can do while running code, so long as you do it with 'due regard'. You can speed, go in opposite lane of traffic, run all the red lights and stop signs you want, pass busses with flashing red signs, etc etc. The only law limiting thing is to do it safely.... if something goes wrong, even if the other person is at fault, you're paying for it.

 

[i5adam8]

This Town in Particular is so rural with such a small population that you really wouldn't have any problem moving traffic out of the way at that time of the evening is what the mindset is I believe for those responsible for the ordinance. But it would only take one instance of someone getting involved in an MVA to bring up all kinds of legal issues.

 

[BLSBoy]

It appears to be the same in New Jersey based upon New Jersey Motor Vehicle Code 39:4-91 which states


Highlighted for emphasis, especially the word AND which means ambulances must have both operating to qualify for the emergency vehicle exemption. A little bit more digging turned up New Jersey Motor Vehicle Code 39:3-54:12 which states

Nice try on the last one, but it applies to POVs, not agency owned vehicles.

 

[JPINFV]

It should. Federal preepmts state which preempts local

That's not how laws always work. Using a California example, cities and counties cannot adopt gun laws in addition to what is put forth at the state level because the state preempts everything. However, individual states can adopt more restrictive gun laws than the federal government can place. Additionally, there are always areas that is constitutional for state and local governments to regulate, but unconstitutional for the federal government to regulate. My favorite SCOTUS case regarding this is US v Lopez.

 

[Shishkabob]

Meh, depends JPIN.

If it's a federal thing, outlined in the constitution, the states cannot override the federal government (DC vs Heller for the 2nd amendment as an example).

However, if it's not a power explicitly given to the fed, than the states can decide (Which is why Obama-care is going to get tossed out).


So whilst it may be harder to get a gun in places like Cali, they can not outright ban firearms.



Whilst a city can make all the ordinances they want concerning emergency vehicles, they wouldn't hold up to judicial scrutiny on the state level.

 

[JPINFV]

So whilst it may be harder to get a gun in places like Cali, they can not outright ban firearms.

However, this isn't a US constitutional thing. A city in California cannot have more restrictive laws than the state. For example, outside of Easy Victim School Zones, it is legal in California to open carry an unloaded firearm. A city cannot pass a law either extending the Easy Victim zones or banning unloaded open carry because those laws are preempted by state level legislation.

 

[WARR]

Where was the mutual respect? I know most officers know that if he gets shot it is the EMTs/Paramedics working on them trying to save their life. It is also the same with dispatchers, firefighters, nurses, doctors, etc. Some times you just have to say "slow down, sorry, have a nice day".