EMT-B to EMT-P... A Bad Idea?

[EMTinNEPA]

What is up this you guys thinking an EMT is stuck only with what they learned in their initial program???? Were you guys the ones who never went above and beyond?

I have gone above and beyond. It's called enrolling in medic school.

 

[Sasha]

What is up this you guys thinking an EMT is stuck only with what they learned in their initial program???? Were you guys the ones who never went above and beyond?

I did go above and beyond. Above and beyond EMT right into paramedic school. I think that is a far better service to patients then spending a year doing first aid!

 

[ResTech]

Or enrollment in a decent paramedic school.

No, this was in the very beginning of the Shock-Trauma course... an EMT SHOULD be able to do this. Of course, this was a brand new EMT with NO experience doing a trauma assessment on an actual patient.

 

[JPINFV]

As an EMT with experience, you know what its like to apply cricoid pressure to assist with an intubation, to work a code, insert airways, see the intubations and other advanced modalities, see how they affect patients, get feedback from Paramedics on the call, learn how to operate the monitor and do so on a frequent basis, apply 12-leads, take hundreds of hours of continuing education over the years, run several hundred calls or so a year as a 911 provider, be the lead provider, hone your patient assessment skills, learn lung sounds, learn how to manage an incident scene, learn how to operate within an EMS system... the list goes on and on.

Strange, I've never worked with a paramedic, yet I've met the entrance experience requirement for the vast majority of paramedic schools. I'm also not impressed with the vast majority of CMEs designed for EMT-Bs.

 

[JPINFV]

In order to get a doctorate with exception of MD you do have to have a masters, and to get a master you need a bachelors. That is how it works here in Canada.

So when I was working on my masters thesis one of the people who rotated through my lab was a PhD student. She failed to find a lab (in addition to failing a second class which is an instant separation) and she ended up with a masters degree instead of a PhD.

 

[daedalus]

Ok, is it a blanket statement to say that an EMT cannot do a quality history and physical exam? Yes, I would say so. However, the reality is that the state in which you work in does not mandate or test to a higher standard than it does for EMT. That means, you may learn a clinical pearl such as how to listen to heart sounds, but you are not tested on it nor expected to know it, and your confidence in the skill will be low, so it will not change your treatment or benefit your patients.

Remember that most disease processes can be diagnosed from the history and confirmed by the physical. An EMT will not have the needed background knowledge of a broad based medical education to identify diseases by history. A physical exam requires an extensive knowledge in functional anatomy and physiology, as well as pathophysiology. Want to see the level of information presented to medical students on the topic of edema alone? Compared to the few sentences about it in an EMT book. Triple the education an EMT receives in preforming a physical and it still does not come fill a drop in the bucket to what is being taught in some paramedic schools that require a separate text on the topic of H&Ps.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

No, this was in the very beginning of the Shock-Trauma course... an EMT SHOULD be able to do this. Of course, this was a brand new EMT with NO experience doing a trauma assessment on an actual patient.

An EMT who, like all the other EMTs/EMT-P candidates, SHOULD have been lectured in the performance of a rapid trauma assessment prior to partaking in any type of practical lab.

 

[ResTech]

Like I said, its not a determining factor of success, it just makes it a little easier on the student. That's all I am saying.

 

[Shishkabob]

The CORRECT statement would have been "EMT's are generally not expected to have as much in depth knowledge as a higher provider"... not something akin to "All EMTs are stupid"




But, aside from that: Are you not an EMT while in paramedic school? You can be an EMT AND have an education of a higher level, can you not?

 

[JPINFV]

QUIT MAKING BLANKET STATEMENTS.







Work as an EMT while going to medic school, be it 6 months, 1 year, or 2 years. Everyone wins

Blanket statement: Under the NHTSA's National standard Curriculum, which is the model still used in most states for their EMT-B level, basics do not have enough knowledge. to do a good assessment. It takes more than 2 hours of A/P to understand what an assessment is telling you.

 

[daedalus]

If one needs to work as an EMT to learn how to place electrode stickers, that person is a few tacos short of a combination plate.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Like I said, its not a determining factor of success, it just makes it a little easier on the student. That's all I am saying.

Or a little harder because of bad habits they picked up.

 

[ResTech]

Want to see the level of information presented to medical students on the topic of edema alone?

Um, we are EMS providers... not med students. EMS is just that, EMS! Its not definitive care. As a Paramedic, you try hard, study hard, learn always, and do the best you can to better your patient during the 20mins you have them! If you want to do more than you should go to Med School.

 

[JPINFV]

What is up this you guys thinking an EMT is stuck only with what they learned in their initial program???? Were you guys the ones who never went above and beyond?

Oh, damn. I guess I should have gone to paramedic school to get invaluable experience reading "***Acute MI suspected***" on 12 leads before going to medical school.

 

[Shishkabob]

Or a little harder because of bad habits they picked up.

I hear this every single time this debate pops up, and I have yet to be shown the "bad habit" that all EMTs fall prey to if they work as a basic before a medic.

Red herring?

 

[daedalus]

Oh, damn. I guess I should have gone to paramedic school to get invaluable experience reading "***Acute MI suspected***" on 12 leads before going to medical school.

And don't forget about intubation. God forbid you start an EM residency without getting you required tube for paramedic school.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Um, we are EMS providers... not med students. EMS is just that, EMS! Its not definitive care. As a Paramedic, you try hard, study hard, learn always, and do the best you can to better your patient during the 20mins you have them! If you want to do more than you should go to Med School.

Medicine is medicine... it makes no difference whether you have MD, DO, PA, RN, CRNP, LPN, CNA, EMT-P, or EMT-B after your name. And what about situations like cardiac arrests where definitive care IS within our capabilities?

 

[JPINFV]

Um, we are EMS providers... not med students.

::coughs::

 

[ResTech]

daedalus... do you even like EMS? You seem to be very condescending of it in many of your post on differing topics.

 

[daedalus]

daedalus... do you even like EMS? You seem to be very condescending of it in many of your post on differing topics.

I like enough to wish to raise standards high enough so that you, restech, are respected by your peers in other fields of medicine.

EMTinPEA is absolutely correct, medicine is medicine, and I have enough respect for paramedics to believe that they deserve better than a dumbed down version of it.