don't want to volunteer

[TransportJockey]

Thanks for understanding what I'm trying to do. I'm not saying volunteering is a terrible thing, only that I believe when you give something away for free, you take away it's value. Do you ever see doctors or nurses working free? They might volunteer their services once in awhile, but not on a regular basis.

I hope more people like you join EMS

 

[NJnewbie]

I hope more people like you join EMS

Thanks, that makes me feel I am doing the right thing.

I read through everyone's responses and I thank you all for taking the time to respond. You've helped me make an important decision. I'm going to pay for the EMT-B myself (and the CPR for health care providers prereq class) and then will see if I can get a paid gig. There are services here that advertise all the time that they will take newly certified EMTs so I'm hoping it will work out. I will report back and let you know how it turns out.

A special thanks to 46Young for breaking down the finances for me. That was very helpful!

 

[Theo]

Thanks, that makes me feel I am doing the right thing.

You are doing the right thing. You took your due diligence, looked at the situation from different angles, and made a decision. Not unlike being on a call. I have a few friends that took the volunteer route just to get the free class. They are now all suffering through the payback period with plenty of regret.

I have nothing against volunteering. I volunteer to coach youth sports, help out cleaning up litter, do fundraisers, and other things like that. However, volunteering professional services is not in my plans.

If more people had your attitude and if education standards went up we would see this become a profession where we could make a decent living without working multiple jobs.

Agreed 100%

 

[mcdonl]

I'm not saying volunteering is a terrible thing, only that I believe when you give something away for free, you take away it's value.

Yeah, charity has no value.

Do you ever see doctors or nurses working free? They might volunteer their services once in awhile, but not on a regular basis.

I know a few Doctors and Nurses who give their time away at home and abroad on a regular basis. To some of us, we do this because it is a way to help our struggling communities. The pay that EMS folks make is pathetic, to get into this field and be money driven shows low ambition in my opinion. I would have to work 4 full time medic jobs to make what I make as a hospital administrator.

Volunteering is a good thing, and giving away your service does not cheapen it, it just enhances your worth to society.

 

[LucidResq]

Yeah, charity has no value.



I know a few Doctors and Nurses who give their time away at home and abroad on a regular basis. To some of us, we do this because it is a way to help our struggling communities. The pay that EMS folks make is pathetic, to get into this field and be money driven shows low ambition in my opinion. I would have to work 4 full time medic jobs to make what I make as a hospital administrator.

Volunteering is a good thing, and giving away your service does not cheapen it, it just enhances your worth to society.

You do not see people working day-jobs as electricians or something and volunteering 12 hours a week as surgeons on top of that. I have never met a doctor or nurse that only works in a medical capacity as a volunteer, as many EMTs do, save a few who worked in the field, retired, and now volunteer occasionally.

Nor do you see hospitals run entirely by volunteer doctors and nurses in the United States, as we see many of our EMS systems.

Why pay people well to do a job that so many willingly do for free? Why increase education standards for certification, when many of the volunteers will be unwilling or unable to meet higher standards and simply walk?

 

[mcdonl]

You do not see people working day-jobs as electricians or something and volunteering 12 hours a week as surgeons on top of that. I have never met a doctor or nurse that only works in a medical capacity as a volunteer, as many EMTs do, save a few who worked in the field, retired, and now volunteer occasionally.

Nor do you see hospitals run entirely by volunteer doctors and nurses in the United States, as we see many of our EMS systems.

Why pay people well to do a job that so many willingly do for free? Why increase education standards for certification, when many of the volunteers will be unwilling or unable to meet higher standards and simply walk?

I am not trying to be a ****, but to compare being an RN or a surgeon to an EMT is a stretch.

As far as the education, I agree 100%. I think it should be harder, and that standards should be higher. I also think that if the standards were raised, you would have a higher quality of volunteer. As it should be.

I get it... I take a call, and I get $45 and that is less than someone who does it for a living. And your right, as an IT professional and hospital management I cannot even fathom what it would be like if someone came in off the street and did my job for nothing.

BUT - you chose to work in public service. You knew about this before you got into it.

Lucid, I am just picking on your because you seem nice. Do you own a home in your community? Are you raising children?

What I am getting at is this. I have coached, sports and academics. I have been on the PTC, I have and still do serve up food at the homeless shelter. I put out fires, and I work the rescue unit 2 nights a week and one weekend a month. It is not that I do this for the thrill, although it can be thrilling, I certainly do not do it for the money - I do it because this is MY community.

This is where I raise my children, this is where I will host my grandchildren for Christmas dinner some day God willing, this is where I live. If the volunteer service didn't exist, I would not be up all night helping the sick and the injured but rest assured I would be doing something to lend a hand.

That it what makes our country tick. That is what makes a lawyer give up millions of dollars to be congressmen, or soldier. Not because they want a cut and pay and take a job with less glory and responsibility, because they want to help.

I challenge you with this. Figure out a way for all of the communities in the US to have the funding needed to cover EMS and Fire 24/7 with paid employees without breaking the backs of the tax payers and show me where the ballot box is, I will be the first person there signing up because volunteering comes with all of the headaches you have as a paid medic, but with none of the benefits other than knowing we made a difference today and didn't need to draw a paycheck to do it.

 

[mcdonl]

Nevermind

 

[medic417]

BUT - you chose to work in public service.

No I chose to be a health care professional.

 

[mcdonl]

No I chose to be a health care professional.

I tried to edit my post and get out of this debate. It is a dead end debate with two sides who will never see eye to eye. I apologized to Lucid already.

 

[NJnewbie]

It wasn't meant to be a debate, but it seems it has turned into that. As medic417 said, I want to be a health care professional. And I'd like to be taken seriously. That shouldn't be too much to ask when you're saving people's lives on a daily basis.

 

[mcdonl]

Really? Do you not value your work? Are nurses and doctors better than you because they have more education? Do you feel what you do is a waste of time? It sounds like you have a low opinion of yourself and your work.

I hope that conclusion you jumped too is not high enough to cause you harm.

No, I dont think they are better than me. A couple of them work for me.

BUT.. I do, without a doubt feel that they are worth a LOT MORE MONEY than I make.

Isnt that your point? Isnt your whole argument that volunteers water down your industry, and that what you do should not be given away... money money money... well, if it is about education and resulting money... I repeat... you cannot compare an EMT to an RN or MD.

 

[mcdonl]

It wasn't meant to be a debate, but it seems it has turned into that. As medic417 said, I want to be a health care professional. And I'd like to be taken seriously. That shouldn't be too much to ask when you're saving people's lives on a daily basis.

I hear you, sorry man. It is a strange phenomena... this whole industry that has a group volunteering to do the same job. Kinda hard to get your head around. I guess that until someone can figure out a way for the town of 2000 people in rural USA to get 24/7 paid coverage we will just have to learn to get along.

And, as far as your original dilema... I have no advice and had no real reason or justification to jump into this argument other than I felt like it.

 

[medic417]

I hear you, sorry man. It is a strange phenomena... this whole industry that has a group volunteering to do the same job. Kinda hard to get your head around. I guess that until someone can figure out a way for the town of 2000 people in rural USA to get 24/7 paid coverage we will just have to learn to get along.

And, as far as your original dilema... I have no advice and had no real reason or justification to jump into this argument other than I felt like it.

That has been shown many times here and on other forums. Heck I am at a town of less than 1200 today drawing higher pay than most big city medics. Why? The community decided having people to save a loved one was more important than all the pet projects and holiday parties. By diverting money from that they pay us 24/7/365.

 

[mcdonl]

That has been shown many times here and on other forums. Heck I am at a town of less than 1200 today drawing higher pay than most big city medics. Why? The community decided having people to save a loved one was more important than all the pet projects and holiday parties. By diverting money from that they pay us 24/7/365.

Well hats off to your town. We have made it to (2) 12 hour positions 7 days a week but still that leaves half the day. No other towns around us are 24/7/365 and we have some 6-15K towns... but day coverage is becoming the norm.

I guess we have no shortage of folks willing to pitch in and save the loved ones. Maybe a town of so few simply does not have the intellectual resources to staff a department.

 

[TransportJockey]

I guess we have no shortage of folks willing to pitch in and save the loved ones. Maybe a town of so few simply does not have the intellectual resources to staff a department.

Sounds like a pretty good assessment of why a lot of smaller towns don't have paid ALS coverage 24/7

 

[usafmedic45]

Maybe a town of so few simply does not have the intellectual resources to staff a department.

It's not the "intellectual" problem. It's called insufficient budget. As someone who grew up in small towns and worked in them, I find that comment rather offensive.

Sounds like a pretty good assessment of why a lot of smaller towns don't have paid ALS coverage 24/7

As opposed to you know, a major city of almost 900,000 that bankrupts itself building a new football stadium? Seriously JT, such assumptions are beneath you.

 

[TransportJockey]

As opposed to you know, a major city of almost 900,000 that bankrupts itself building a new football stadium? Seriously JT, such assumptions are beneath you.

Doing the most of my growing up in NM, that is exactly the problem with small towns down there. I'm sorry if I offended you with my assumption, as it was a blanket statement when it most likely didn't need to be.

 

[usafmedic45]

Doing the most of my growing up in NM, that is exactly the problem with small towns down there. I'm sorry if I offended you with my assumption, as it was a blanket statement when it most likely didn't need to be.

No worries. I was just a little surprised to hear it from someone I respect. It would be a bit like hearing me say we should reduce the standards for EMT testing.

 

[TransportJockey]

No worries. I was just a little surprised to hear it from someone I respect. It would be a bit like hearing me say we should reduce the standards for EMT testing.

I can understand that. I take the town I'm sitting in right now as an example though. They've got the funding and a few employees desire to make it an ALS service, but the town keeps fumbling any attempts to make it anything other than the ILS it currently is. That's pretty universal for lots of rural NM.

And I'm having a bad day So I'm a little more cynical than usual

 

[usafmedic45]

So I'm a little more cynical than usual

That's odd...I'm having a great night and I'm a little less cynical than my usual. Maybe the fact I just went and saw someone I worked a code on two days ago and found him to have no neuro deficits has something to do with it....