don't want to volunteer

[46Young]

I can't imagine a volunteer unit behaving like that, but then again, I have the luck to run in a unit that has seasoned medics at their disposal (not that they run as medics here as we are a bls unit) but also our training officer has a 100% pass rate for any students she brings to the state exams. She's sort of known in these parts for her pass rate, as well as pushing the unit for propriety.

That's my point. My first exposure to volunteer EMS was with the various VAC's in NYC. I ran with one, and dealt with several others whan I worked paid 911. They would run drunks to the hosp hot, ripping corners and such. The senior members would dictate everything, and just have me carry bags and lift. Some vollies I ran with I would think, "there's no way they would hack it on the job for real". My next exposure was with the various Long Island vollies, such as Brentwood, Exchange of the Islips, Commack, etc. They were as on top of their game as one could be, IMO. I'd let them treat my family. It probably helped that many of them worked paid elsewhere, thus ensuring ongoing training, accountability, standards, and call volume. I've since worked with various volly depts in South Carolina and Northern Virginia. The professionalism, proficiency, interpersonal relations and such vary widely.

That's my next point. I am of the opinion that in order to volunteer, you should have prior paid experience, or at least go to a standardized EMS and/or fire academy (whatever the case may be) to ensure uniform, adequate training, from an accredited institution. I'm not against volunteers, but my main issue is the lack of regulation regarding training, QA/QI, and accountability. It varies widely from dept to dept.

 

[firecoins]

maybe you haven't researched the wage of an EMT-B.

you will probably still NEED a full time job.

edited to add:

heck... maybe you haven't researched the wage of a PARAMEDIC.

Where I volunteer full time medics make $11.00/hr

Medics make $25 in Jersey

 

[46Young]

OP... not trying to change your mind... but... just got back from a GSW Suicide attempt... failed attemt, good call... Just saying, you may not get paid much to volunteer but you will get experience, and in this field it seems to trump all other education. I value education, but I agree with the philosophy that experience pays...

PS - I was late for my day job

True, but look at post # 58. My former employer valued paid 911 over volunteer experience literally 10:1. This policy was created by those who are active in the volunteer community, and are all officers at their depts. They know the potential issues with volunteer experience on a resume, and that shows in their policy. Also, I don't agree with the practice in some regions where they will only hire from the local volunteer depts. This is a racket where they ensure that they will always have free labor for the community be hanging that carrot out in front of them, the paid position.

 

[46Young]

maybe you haven't researched the wage of an EMT-B.

you will probably still NEED a full time job.

edited to add:

heck... maybe you haven't researched the wage of a PARAMEDIC.

Where I volunteer full time medics make $11.00/hr

FT medics in NYC - 20-35/hr. Virginia, 12-18/hr, or 40-60k. South Carolina, 16-20/hr, or 38-68k 24/48 third service. Salary varies widely, as does the cost of living. If I stood to make 11 bucks an hour, I would choose a six month mill over a degree, for sure.

 

[mcdonl]

I can't imagine a volunteer unit behaving like that, but then again, I have the luck to run in a unit that has seasoned medics at their disposal (not that they run as medics here as we are a bls unit) but also our training officer has a 100% pass rate for any students she brings to the state exams. She's sort of known in these parts for her pass rate, as well as pushing the unit for propriety.

All of our officers are medic's for the surrounding cities and are all full time, 15-20 year professionals in the late 30's to late 40's and run our department like a full time operation. There are serious challenges to doing it that way, but for those of us who take this seriously it works well.

Also we need to maintain FF1/2, annual physicals, QA/QI is top priority, etc... so we run a tight ship operationally but we do have a hard time covering shifts now. In the past, you could be unlicensed, drive and assist a basic. Now you need to be at least a FR to drive... this cost us drivers. Also, a lot of the "old timers" feel like they are disrespected because they are not full timers where they SHOULD be looking at this as an opportunity for education, but as lucid points out... not all vollies are interested in advanced education. I am already counting basic calls and looking at an intermediate class in the fall, as I figure a basic is not too helpful in a bad trauma call.

To the point of small towns and the "type" of calls... well... the roads through our town are all 55mph speed limits, we have a lot of poor, depressed people and some tough old birds that will wait and see if they kick the bucket over night before calling us... so we dont get too many sprained ankles or whinos looking for a good night sleep. We get many good calls like MVA's and "action" related accidents... shooting mishaps, ATV accidents, swift/ice water rescues...

 

[EMSLaw]

I would suspect the difference in experience between paid and volunteer is that volunteers usually only run one or two nights a week, rather than doing it as a full-time, 40+ hour per week job.

As for the rest of it... well, this is already turning into yet another volly v. paid debate thread. I think the posters who said that volunteer services vary is right on the money. The same is true for paid services. There are plenty of shady, fly-by-night paid services out there. Collecting a paycheck or not isn't what makes the difference - it's training, leadership, standards, and the variety of imponderables that make up "professionalism" and have little to do with whether you get money for doing the job.

There are people in my volunteer squad who are top of their game - even though there are no volunteer ALS services in NJ, we have several paramedics and paramedic students who run with us regularly, as well as many people who willingly take far in excess of the CEUs required for recertification - which is why I suspect that if training requirements go up, those people who have an interest in and love for EMS, whether volunteer or paid, will meet those standards. On the other hand, there are people who don't "get it" - they get remediated, and if they can't or won't improve, are asked to leave. I've never worked for a paid service, but I suspect that's the same everywhere.

There will, I suspect, be a need for volunteer services going forward - either because the town is too small to support a full-time, all-paid EMS service, or, as the case of New York City, because the paid crews can't handle the workload with the budget and personnel constraints they have. That's totally seperate from the fact that if you ARE going to hire people to do the job, they should be well trained and paid a living wage. The two issues are seperate, and, to an extent, make these repeated conversations stupid. What works in NYC might not work in LA, and certainly won't work in 1000-square-miles of unincorporated Anywhere, USA with a population of 101.5 (including livestock and pets).

 

[DrParasite]

I would suspect the difference in experience between paid and volunteer is that volunteers usually only run one or two nights a week, rather than doing it as a full-time, 40+ hour per week job.

When i first started in EMS, my town used to get 5,000 dispatches a year. that's my volunteer squad. we typically did 6 or 12 hours shifts, and getting 10 calls in those 12 hours wasn't uncommon. there are paid ambulances that doesn't do that many calls. We also covered the NJ turnkpike, a 6 lane highway, several large senior committees, and get our share of EDPs, hangings, ODs, and weird *** :censored::censored::censored::censored:.

no one can say you will be more experience if you volunteer vs being FT on a 911 truck. that's absurd.

however, most places won't hire you without experience.

also, working one night a week at a per diem EMS job vs volunteering one night a week, what's the difference? nothing.

Lastly, just because you receive a paycheck doesn't mean you are any smarter, better educated, or better trained. At my FT job, we have our share of idiots, and even a few FT idiots (one of whom works part time elsewhere as a supervisor). Almost every one started as a volunteer somewhere, and some continue to volunteer in their home towns (the whole looking out for your own thing).