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bayoumedic

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This only applies to people working at companies that want to change the way they pay employees during the night hours using 'sleep time'. The sleep time rule states that you will not be paid for up to 8 hours at night unless you get a call. If you can not get at least 5 straight hours of sleep then you will be paid for the entire shift. This is legal in EMS but there is one thing that the employees usually are not aware of when presented with this change. This is actually an agreement that must be "agreed to". Your rights given to you under the FLSA say that you are to be paid for all hours you work. The sleep time rule is an exception to this but only if agreed to. At first I thought that well if you don't sign on to it then you will get terminated. WRONG. They can try but to fire you for this is illegal. Here is a link to a US Federal Court of Appeals case law where 2 paramedics in this situation didn't sign and were fired. They sued and they won.

http://openjurist.org/108/f3d/1376/cunningham-v-gibson-county-tennessee-a

The flip side to this is that it does not apply to people being paid with the sleep time rule that were hired on with this in place. The courts look at this as agreeing to the pay scale at time of hiring.

This case law addresses the argument of an economic downturn forcing the company to go to this pay scale - result: not a valid argument.

I was placed in this situation and after many hours of research this is what I have found. I am placing it here so that others in EMS can quickly find exactly what they need to be informed about this topic.

:nosoupfortroll:
 
It says they were ambulance drivers :glare: I hope this doesn't come to my area.
 
as long as you stay with the same company you can stop it for happening to you. They can only change the rules in there favor if you let them.
 
Unless I am reading this wrong, this legal action may only take place if it is a government agency trying this type of scheduling. If it is a private owned business or company, then you are out of luck and they can change the schedule as they see fit.

In addition to this, I surmise LA is a right to work state like most states are, therefore the employees could have been fired for any reason or no reason.

Also, in the brief, a government agency could simply get out of this by firing everyone and rehiring (a simple loophole) and as a condition for rehiring you agree to the new schedule.
 
I'll just stick to my 12-16 hour shifts, thanks.
 
In this case the employers argued that that since they were local government that this did not apply but it was ruled that it applies to both private and governmental types of companies.

You are right about the possibility of firing and rehiring. What you have to ask yourself as an owner are what could the negative results be if we fire everyone.
 
bayoumedic said:
What you have to ask yourself as an owner are what could the negative results be if we fire everyone.
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None as there is a glut of emt's and Paramedics on the market. Fire them all hire new ones at lower wages and paid less hours. Business wins.
 
Exactly...I could fire every single one of my employees right now and have them replaced in a day. Practically speaking, it is an absurd practice, but it could be done.

And since only 2 out of 30 or 38 employees at this company disagreed with the new policy and risked their jobs, I would say if I walked in with a new schedule and said you are now fired but if you agree to this new schedule you are instantly rehired, most would opt for the new schedule leaving me with no gaps in my scheduling and again, business wins.
 
lucky for me in my situation it was not done like that. Management came to us stating that since the medicare bonus payments had stopped they were asking to go to this schedule. Which by the way cuts pay over 10K per year. Now that it appears that the bonus payments will not stop they still want to go through with the paycuts. Sounds shady to me. I have turned the offer down.
 
bayoumedic said:
lucky for me in my situation it was not done like that. Management came to us stating that since the medicare bonus payments had stopped they were asking to go to this schedule. Which by the way cuts pay over 10K per year. Now that it appears that the bonus payments will not stop they still want to go through with the paycuts. Sounds shady to me. I have turned the offer down.
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Whats are your options?
 
The company has not given any options on this. They are presenting this to us as if we had no choice in the matter and then they said here sign this. But according to FLSA we do have a choice that our job is protected as a result of this choice.
 
Why would you want to work for this company? Between the pay thing and now this, i would be running the other direction!
 
Doesn't sound to convenient to me?
 
reaper said:
Why would you want to work for this company? Between the pay thing and now this, i would be running the other direction!
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Listen up folks to bayoumedic's issue. Employers all over the country are increasingly re-organizing their ambulance operations for financial reasons. These changes are rarely in favor of the worker. And contrary to popular belief just because you work at an organization with an at-will employment policy, does not mean you can be fired for any reason. So I can empathize with bayoumedic as I have worked for organizations who wanted to suddenly make changes that impact our work rules and wages. Every state has it's own set of labor laws and some states favor the workers, while others do not.

I would recommend that you secretly pool your money from your fellow employees and find a good labor attorney. A 1/2 hr of advice at $300.00/hr for a good attorney can go along way to preserving your work rights. $150.00 well spent to avoid all the confusion, misconceptions and guess work on your part.
 
NWParamedic said:
And contrary to popular belief just because you work at an organization with an at-will employment policy, does not mean you can be fired for any reason. .
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Your right they do not have to give a reason. They can walk in and say you are no longer employed goodbye. In fact many managers make the mistake of trying to justify and that is when the business gets in trouble.

Now I agree consult with an expert in labor laws in your states but for the most part at will means if either party ( the employee or the employer ) decides to make a change in employment status they can with no notice.
 
They can in fact make changes or fire you without notice yes. But again what they do must be legal and in accordance with all applicable state laws and in accordance with their currently agreed upon work rules in your employee handbook. And unless you are a labor attorney, you may not know all of your rights.

And if you are in a state where the laws are favorable to the employees, usually the employer will lose in court if they did not fire you for "just cause".

This also, by the way, applies when unemployment insurance is granted or not. Beyond being layed off, if you were fired for "just cause" you will not be entitled to unemployment benefits. If the unemployment officer deems you were not fired for "just cause" you will get your benefits.
 
What on earth... This is ridiculous.

If the president of my company heard about an idea like this, he would laugh. Then he would post it in all the regional bases so the EMTs could laugh.

If this ever came my way and I had to work a 24, I would brew a pot of coffee and enjoy the fourth watch of the night wide awake.
 
eveningsky339 said:
What on earth... This is ridiculous.

If the president of my company heard about an idea like this, he would laugh. Then he would post it in all the regional bases so the EMTs could laugh.

If this ever came my way and I had to work a 24, I would brew a pot of coffee and enjoy the fourth watch of the night wide awake.
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But they wouldn't pay you for the time you were supposed to be "sleeping". As for at-will employment, you can be let go for any reason or no reason at all, so long as the reason is not an improper one. In other words, they can get rid of you just because they feel like it, or are cutting staff, or whatever, but they can't come out and say they got rid of you for attempting to unionize or complaining about working conditions or what have you.

Now, you'd think employers wouldn't be stupid enough to come out and SAY that they wanted rid of you for those reasons. But, you'd be surprised what people put down in writing.
 
Sounds great absolutely no job protection, change the rules when they want, walk in and fire you at will and decide to pay you fifty cents and hour while your sleeping.

Sounds like a great opportunity.

Not so much.

Move on.

Say what you will about unions. This bull **** doesn't happen in my area or any other of the ridiculous stories we have heard lately where an employer is sticking it to the employee.
 
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