Why is the National Registy Testing on Information that is not in the program

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bajamedic

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There seems to be allot of questions on material other than what is being given to students. This is not comming from someone that is new to EMS. I discussed the subject with the lead EMS instructor in our system. Why is somone not doing something about it. Lots of Medics are failing the exam, questions are not relative to scope of pracitce.:wacko:
 
bajamedic said:
There seems to be allot of questions on material other than what is being given to students. This is not comming from someone that is new to EMS. I discussed the subject with the lead EMS instructor in our system. Why is somone not doing something about it. Lots of Medics are failing the exam, questions are not relative to scope of pracitce.:wacko:
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Any examples? I havnt heard of anyone around here having any issues.


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bajamedic said:
There seems to be allot of questions on material other than what is being given to students. This is not comming from someone that is new to EMS. I discussed the subject with the lead EMS instructor in our system. Why is somone not doing something about it. Lots of Medics are failing the exam, questions are not relative to scope of pracitce.:wacko:
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Are you talking about the Basic or Paramedic exam? All of the material tested upon has been vetted and discussed ad nauseum by dozens of question writers, all active EMS professionals, educators, physicians, etc (a few are active here). All of the questions asked are included in the national (DOT) curriculum, and discussed in textbooks.
I don't think this forum allows for posting of questions, but perhaps if you describe the areas you have found weakness?
 
I did not have any issues I passed when I took it.

I helped a recent class of a San Diego CC. Most of them failed NREMT-P. Since you replied, may I ask. Do you feel California is falling behind he EMS training curve? Let me put it this way. The California Bar Exam publishes past test that they have given to allow students to review. For example the area contracts has about 6 areas of possible dispute at common law, the bar has never tested on more than 2 areas in the last few years. SO.........why are these kids not being given a copy of the previous test in so they can study and pass.
 
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By scope of practice do you mean NR scope or local scope? Those two things can be very very different
 
Why should NR test to local scope? If local is more restrictive than NR, that's too bad. NR is the national baseline test to see if you're competent to practice by the national scope of practice that is laid out.
 
If you're class didn't cover all of the DOT objectives, that's not the fault of the testing entity. I know that many programs skimp on the "operations" portion of the material. I know a medic student who just failed his NR because of "radio operation" questions and some stuff related to NIMS. If you're familiar with the objectives and you use a test prep service like JB Learning, I believe you'll be well prepared to master the somewhat simple NR test.


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Right....it's an attribution error and not a problem with the test.

Do you feel California is falling behind he EMS training curve?
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They are so far behind the curve on everything EMS related that the only people worse than they are is Maryland.
 
Thanks AFMedic

That is what I was looking for. So the schools are not teaching to NR standards.
 
It's the problem with training people for the local workforce when you have a national standard that few people use but that is used for the yardstick. It is a sticky situation.

My comments about California has a lot more to do with the administrative side of EMS at the state and county level as well as the oversaturation of the market by for-profit schools than a strict educational issue.
 
The educational issue is also in nursing.

New grad nurses say they cant get jobs? They can't start IVs either. So is education serving the employers needs or is education keeping itself in business. I feel the NREMT is over testing . That is my opinion. I took my original test in 1987 at FT Benning. EMT-Bs in this county do not get the chance to practice thier skills. It is an ALS area and basic don't get to play.

So.....that is my opinion. Tijuana Mexico has some better street medics than we have in San Diego. Can any of this testing lead to better ways to admin 15 lpm of O2 by Non Rebreather Mask. If the scope of skills is not going to change then it is not valid. Remember...Start an IV Squad 51 and transport.
Yes we have 12 leads, etc etc. In the big city is still load and go allot of the time and that is what the ER Docs want.
 
bajamedic said:
So.....that is my opinion. Tijuana Mexico has some better street medics than we have in San Diego. Can any of this testing lead to better ways to admin 15 lpm of O2 by Non Rebreather Mask. If the scope of skills is not going to change then it is not valid. Remember...Start an IV Squad 51 and transport.
Yes we have 12 leads, etc etc. In the big city is still load and go allot of the time and that is what the ER Docs want.
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Skills don't have much to do with being a paramedic, they are a small piece to a very large picture. Watch an ER doc for an evening, he won't preform a lot of physical skills, but he will do a heck of a lot of thinking, talking, and analyzing. Anyone can put in a chest tube or a central line, years of education will tell you when and why to apply simple skills.

NREMT is not asking black and white questions to paramedics like the NREMT-B exam like: "what is the appropriate flow rate of a NRB?". Instead questions are now shades of gray, much like real medicine, where there is no true absolute. For example: Your patient has a hx of prior MI, HTN, and Asthma, takes an ACE inhibitor and a B2 agonist, currently having chest discomfort and wheezing in all fields, how do you treat this patient? Well there is no right answer from that, is it cardiac or asthma? Do I treat one? both? where do I start?

With that said, NREMT is still a joke. I passed it while recovering from a MASSIVE hangover, I could barely look at the screen without my head throbbing. The questions aren't difficult, but if you have no knowledge beyond local protocol and no knowledge of A+P beyond the intro part of the paramedic cook book then you won't pass. I assume California doesn't use Mannitol, Lidocaine, or Procainamide? All of these drugs could appear on a national registry exam and are required knowledge. I also assume most paramedic schools don't require A+P at the university level? Then this question might be hard: "What is the pre-ganglionic neurotransmitter?" (from a test prep book).

If you step into the NREMT test site with the required knowledge of an entry level HEALTHCARE professional, then the test should be a breeze, step into the exam after attending Bob's Paramedic School for hosemonkeys, then yes, NREMT is very hard.
 
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years of education will tell you when and why to apply simple skills
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...and more importantly, when NOT to. That's the hardest skill in medicine to learn: when not to do something you know how to do.
 
If you step into the NREMT test site with the required knowledge of an entry level HEALTHCARE professional, then the test should be a breeze, step into the exam after attending Bob's Paramedic School for hosemonkeys, then yes, NREMT is very hard.
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I like you. Let's be friends. LOL
 
I don't remember registry being all that hard. Heck my group passed it first try after getting sloshed on margaritas during our afternoon break in between practicals and written. The dozen or so of our employees that have taken it this year all had no issues passing first try. It isn't that difficult with a good knowledge base.

Skills are easy. My partner called our skills "monkey skills". Any monkey can do the skills it takes a smart person to be a medic.


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Pretty sure I read on an NREMT newsletter that they have certain sample questions that are not a part of the curricula, and as such do not count for / against your score, they are just evaluating the general knowledge of test takers, etc.
 
I'm fairly certain I could pass a national registry test if you put it in front of me.

If I had my druthers we wouldn't even be testing "skill" (your program should have made sure you were competent) rather we'd do something similar to a physicians board certification exam.

If the programs in your area only teach local scope and practice...it's going to be difficult.
 
usalsfyre said:
If the programs in your area only teach local scope and practice...it's going to be difficult.
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This is probably part of it. I can remember having to know a good bit of stuff that didnt apply to us thanks to the Alabama Office of EMS's super restrictive state wide protocols. The disclaimer of "you cant do this here but know it for registry" got old quick....And partly influenced our working out of state.
 
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