the 100% directionless thread

[Cory]

Actually, only about a third of EMS is provided by fire departments. Want to try again?

Source?

I was talking specifically about 911 response. And if your ambulance says "Sherrif's Office", then that only proves my point as well.

 

[JPINFV]

Source?

I was talking specifically about 911 response. And if your ambulance says "Sherrif's Office", then that only proves my point as well.

Do you have a source for EMS based fire suppression being the majority and anything other than a cash grab?

The Proposition 13 concept--one of fiscal belt-tightening currently sweeping the country [Ed's Note: Prop. 13 was a 1978 antitax measure passed by Calif. voters. It helped spark a wave of similar measures throughout the U.S.]--demands that our firefighters provide the full spectrum of service--fire prevention, fire inspections, fire suppression and emergency medical services--in order to show some degree of cost-effectiveness.

http://www.emsresponder.com/features/article.jsp?id=11832&siteSection=18

...because nothing shows cost effectiveness like sending unneeded fire engines to medical calls.

 

[reaper]

Source?

I was talking specifically about 911 response. And if your ambulance says "Sherrif's Office", then that only proves my point as well.

Yes, Majority of 911 services are third service or private.

 

[Cory]

Yes, Majority of 911 services are third service or private.

Source?

 

[reaper]

Yes SOURCE? You have been told by several people that actually work in the field.

You have yet to provide a source for your claim that Fire based EMS is a majority. I can think of 100-200 public or private EMS services. Maybe 50-60 fire based.

So! Where is your source?

 

[Sasha]

Children children.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Within area covered by the two local EMSA's (population ~750,000) there is only 1 Fire Department that provides 911 Ambulance (Ebbet's pass Fire)... and yet I can can name 9 private 911 ambulances companies off the top of my head in the same area.

Tuolumne County Ambulance
Hughson Ambulance
AMR (Stanislaus)
AMR (Turlock)
American Legion
Oak Valley District
Mercy Ambulance
Paterson District
Westside Ambulance

By that math, 10% of all 911 Ambulance is Fire based! Of course, that one Fire Department covers a population of just 5k. So, just because some areas of the country have a large Fire Based EMS coverage, that doesn't meant that reality is the same for everyone. For that matter, I would be willing to bet that for every Fire Ambulance out there in the U.S. there is at least one AMR (private) ambulance! LOL. I would like to see the numbers as well on this, but I would be willing to bet that based on what I have seen, at the most 30% of all 911 Ambulances in the U.S. are Fire run. As for the Sheriff's thing... only a few Sheriff's Offices in the entire U.S. run Ambulance, and even if that number was greater, a Sheriff's run Ambulance IS NOT Fire.

And my Source? Just my 9 years of personal firsthand information.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Within area covered by the two local EMSA's (population ~750,000) there is only 1 Fire Department that provides 911 Ambulance (Ebbet's pass Fire)... and yet I can can name 9 private 911 ambulances companies off the top of my head in the same area.

Tuolumne County Ambulance
Hughson Ambulance
AMR (Stanislaus)
AMR (Turlock)
American Legion
Oak Valley District
Mercy Ambulance
Paterson District
Westside Ambulance

By that math, 10% of all 911 Ambulance is Fire based! Of course, that one Fire Department covers a population of just 5k. So, just because some areas of the country have a large Fire Based EMS coverage, that doesn't meant that reality is the same for everyone. For that matter, I would be willing to bet that for every Fire Ambulance out there in the U.S. there is at least one AMR (private) ambulance! LOL. I would like to see the numbers as well on this, but I would be willing to bet that based on what I have seen, at the most 30% of all 911 Ambulances in the U.S. are Fire run. As for the Sheriff's thing... only a few Sheriff's Offices in the entire U.S. run Ambulance, and even if that number was greater, a Sheriff's run Ambulance IS NOT Fire.

And my Source? Just my 9 years of personal firsthand information.

Excellent post.......

~~~~~~

Yes, so far as I know, we are one of two Sheriff's Ambulances in the country and the only 911 response Sheriff's ambulance. The other handles just IFTs of folks already in custody, or something of that nature.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

SOURCE: American Ambulance Assosiation.

Now, the numbers are from 2005, and I could not find any newer ones, but it is hard to believe that have changed that much in 5 years:

15,276 ambulance services in US
48,384 ground ambulance vehicles
840,669 EMS personnel
Over 2/3’s of the nation’s largest 200 cities are served by non-fire-based ambulance services.

So, if >67% of the United States' largest cities are served by Private 911 Ambulances, how much you want to bet that smaller cities and towns that don't have the resources for a Government Funded Fire Based Ambulance service and are using Private and/or County Run (Non-Fire) Ambulance? The only Fire Based Systems I know in Central California are either much larger cities or are in areas with a small population of really rich folk that can afford higher taxes for a Government Run Fire Ambulance.

If anyone knows of newer/beter stats. I would actually like to know this as it might help in my crusade locally to keep Fire OUT of EMS sense so far it has only led to bad things; like (an this is common) 4 BLS engines code 3 to a ground level fall, while the ALS Ambo decides (based on the Deputy on scene) to go code 2!

 

[Tincanfireman]

I've resisted the urge to jump in with my .02 until now, but it's late and my resistance is low. ^_^

I would like to submit that every geographical area has different needs and concepts of operation, and that many areas within the same geographical area can also be different for the same reasons. I've read passionate and knowledgable (not that they are exclusive, because they certainly aren't) posts regarding the benefits/pitfalls of private, fire, strictly EMS, law enforcement, union, non-union, volunteer, paid, and many other variations on the above. There is no one system that can work for the entire country; heck, we can't even agree on certification levels between states, let alone which system works the best. Isn't it enough that we can agree that emergency medicine is a noble profession, that providing care is a darn good reason to get out of bed in the morning, and that at the end of the day, the patient really couldn't give a big rat's butt in a whirlwind what the patch on our uniform says? To borrow (and corrupt) a line from a recent song: blood is red, oxygen is good, and sometimes I think we're ALL crazy. Have a good night, folks...

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

...it's late and my resistance is low. ^_^

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!

 

[Shishkabob]

Owned?

 

[Tincanfireman]

I'm feeling that way...

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I hear ya I signed up for HazMat B-D and it was cancelled :/ and the college now doesnt offer RS1 or swiftwater anymore.

yep... now I am trying to fill that hole by organizing some classes for the Team. Writting up a proposal right now to get funding for a POST certifying Mantracking Class for 15 people. And I have to retake Swiftwater in April, so we are working on that too...

 

[lightsandsirens5]

I've resisted the urge to jump in with my .02 until now, but it's late and my resistance is low. ^_^

I would like to submit that every geographical area has different needs and concepts of operation, and that many areas within the same geographical area can also be different for the same reasons. I've read passionate and knowledgable (not that they are exclusive, because they certainly aren't) posts regarding the benefits/pitfalls of private, fire, strictly EMS, law enforcement, union, non-union, volunteer, paid, and many other variations on the above. There is no one system that can work for the entire country; heck, we can't even agree on certification levels between states, let alone which system works the best. Isn't it enough that we can agree that emergency medicine is a noble profession, that providing care is a darn good reason to get out of bed in the morning, and that at the end of the day, the patient really couldn't give a big rat's butt in a whirlwind what the patch on our uniform says? To borrow (and corrupt) a line from a recent song: blood is red, oxygen is good, and sometimes I think we're ALL crazy. Have a good night, folks...

Ahhhhh.....but thou in thy tiredness hath hit the nail squarely on it's head and put to shame the rest of us who have been arguing about this on and off today.

I completely agree with you.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

And I have to retake Swiftwater in April, so we are working on that too...

We???? Are you skitzophrenic or do you just have a mouse in you pocket?

jk jk jk.........

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

We???? Are you skitzophrenic or do you just have a mouse in you pocket?

jk jk jk.........

For the record, Mountain is not the personality talking to you right now... this is Monique... and Monique (who like to talk in the third person) says, "We (the Team) just got a grant from the Feds for 10 complete sets of new PPE gear (drysuits, fins, pfd, helmets, bags, etc...) and the money to send 10 people to be certified or the money to send 20 people to recert."

 

[lightsandsirens5]

For the record, Mountain is not the personality talking to you right now... this is Monique... and Monique (who like to talk in the third person) says, "We (the Team) just got a grant from the Feds for 10 complete sets of new PPE gear (drysuits, fins, pfd, helmets, bags, etc...) and the money to send 10 people to be certified or the money to send 20 people to recert."

Ahhhhhh....forgive this thy humble servant.....errrrr.....Monique. Enjoy yourself and the grant that was awarded to all of your personalities.

 

[Tincanfireman]

For the record, Mountain is not the personality talking to you right now... this is Monique... and Monique (who like to talk in the third person) says, "We (the Team) just got a grant from the Feds for 10 complete sets of new PPE gear (drysuits, fins, pfd, helmets, bags, etc...) and the money to send 10 people to be certified or the money to send 20 people to recert."

In these often-referenced "days of economic uncertainty", getting a check like this one is great. Congratulations!

 

[emt_angel25]

good morning/afternoon all!!!