SEARCH is not the wondertool.

[mycrofft]

Food for thought.

Pose yourself an EMS question, then try using the "SEARCH" function to MEANINGFULLY find an answer. We have a lot of fun here and that sparks participation, but the "noise to signal ratio" is very high. Telling folks to "use search" (as I have many times) really is not practicable and is very off-putting. Maybe being able to Boolean search under parameters like " 'Ridrider'+'pneumothorax' " might be useful, but presently all you get is the raw party chatter like an unredacted CIA surveilance tape. (Don't ask).

At the least, try it yourself and then see whether we just need to be more patient with every new person, or old person asking an old chestnut.

"Hi Norm!"
"Er, I mean, USE 'SEARCH' ! ".

 

[abckidsmom]

Go out to google. Vbulletin search feature sucks, universally. Especially in a site where what people want to know is which boots to buy, and there are a thousand threads that discuss boots. Like this one, lol. (Redwings, hands down best choice.)

 

[medic417]

I wish you would have justed searched as we have already discussed this. :rofl:

You know though it's true search picks up so much it really has become useless. I guess us old timers should just post links rather than telling the newbies what to do. Naaa never mind it's more fun to beat up the new guy. h34r:

 

[mycrofft]

I searched "search"

Nothing today but me, and something about searching PDF's at a place of employment. 20 pages worth of results, all tangential or totally useless.

The dross is burying the gold. In such a forum it has to.

 

[JJR512]

Here's something else to think about in terms of the search feature.

By default (and this forum has not changed this setting), vBulletin will not index words of fewer than four characters. So searching for "bag" will find ZERO results, because the word isn't long enough to be in the index. Now, this setting can be changed by administrators, but because there are a lot of three letter words ("the", "and", "but", etc.), the search index becomes massive and thus very slow.

Now here's another thought. This is an EMS forum. EMS-related words will therefore appear more frequently here than in normal English conversation. Words like "trauma".

Bearing in mind these two facts, when someone wants to find out what bag is used in the Trauma TV series—just to use a completely random example—they will have a very difficult time finding if there are any threads here that discuss that. They won't be able to search for threads that mention both "trauma" and "bag" because "bag" can't be searched for—remember, it's a three-letter word. And simply searching for "trauma" will turn up thousands of results because it's a word uses somewhat frequently here.

Telling someone who starts a new thread asking about this to "use the search feature" is a disservice to that person and to this community. It stifles participation, and that isn't good at all, period. This is a discussion forum and without discussion, it will cease to exist.

Here's a separate thought I have on "use the search". Active members change over time. Technology, protocols, best practices, and medical theory all change over time as well. This is an evolving profession in an evolving world. Someone may come along and ask, "What is the best way to handle this situation," and someone else here may remember that this exact same topic was discussed 13 months ago, and that person may just say "use the search" or even link directly to the thread. Again, in my opinion, this is a disservice to the person asking the question as well as to the forum in general. Since this topic was last discussed, there are probably some different people hanging out around here, and they may have more to contribute than what was posted 13 months ago. Or recent research may have changed the answer. Again, this is a discussion forum and stifling discussion is a disservice to this community.

In general, I think that often times when people feel the need to say "use the search", they should just reconsider whether it's truly worth the time and effort it would take them to post that at all.

 

[ArcticKat]

^^Yeah, what he said^^

It really puts a burr in his bonnet, and it would be great if the users had a search function that was actually more capable of being more specific to the needs of the searcher so that users don't have to answer the same questions over and over.

 

[Chimpie]

Telling someone who starts a new thread asking about this to "use the search feature" is a disservice to that person and to this community. It stifles participation, and that isn't good at all, period. This is a discussion forum and without discussion, it will cease to exist.

Here's a separate thought I have on "use the search". Active members change over time. Technology, protocols, best practices, and medical theory all change over time as well. This is an evolving profession in an evolving world. Someone may come along and ask, "What is the best way to handle this situation," and someone else here may remember that this exact same topic was discussed 13 months ago, and that person may just say "use the search" or even link directly to the thread. Again, in my opinion, this is a disservice to the person asking the question as well as to the forum in general. Since this topic was last discussed, there are probably some different people hanging out around here, and they may have more to contribute than what was posted 13 months ago. Or recent research may have changed the answer. Again, this is a discussion forum and stifling discussion is a disservice to this community.

OMG... someone finally gets it. lol

 

[Anjel]

It really puts a burr in his bonnet, and it would be great if the users had a search function that was actually more capable of being more specific to the needs of the searcher so that users don't have to answer the same questions over and over.

No one is forced to answer. JJ has a good point.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Here's something else to think about in terms of the search feature.

By default (and this forum has not changed this setting), vBulletin will not index words of fewer than four characters. So searching for "bag" will find ZERO results, because the word isn't long enough to be in the index. Now, this setting can be changed by administrators, but because there are a lot of three letter words ("the", "and", "but", etc.), the search index becomes massive and thus very slow.

Now here's another thought. This is an EMS forum. EMS-related words will therefore appear more frequently here than in normal English conversation. Words like "trauma".

Bearing in mind these two facts, when someone wants to find out what bag is used in the Trauma TV series:censored::censored::censored:151;just to use a completely random example:censored::censored::censored:151;they will have a very difficult time finding if there are any threads here that discuss that. They won't be able to search for threads that mention both "trauma" and "bag" because "bag" can't be searched for:censored::censored::censored:151;remember, it's a three-letter word. And simply searching for "trauma" will turn up thousands of results because it's a word uses somewhat frequently here.

Telling someone who starts a new thread asking about this to "use the search feature" is a disservice to that person and to this community. It stifles participation, and that isn't good at all, period. This is a discussion forum and without discussion, it will cease to exist.

Here's a separate thought I have on "use the search". Active members change over time. Technology, protocols, best practices, and medical theory all change over time as well. This is an evolving profession in an evolving world. Someone may come along and ask, "What is the best way to handle this situation," and someone else here may remember that this exact same topic was discussed 13 months ago, and that person may just say "use the search" or even link directly to the thread. Again, in my opinion, this is a disservice to the person asking the question as well as to the forum in general. Since this topic was last discussed, there are probably some different people hanging out around here, and they may have more to contribute than what was posted 13 months ago. Or recent research may have changed the answer. Again, this is a discussion forum and stifling discussion is a disservice to this community.

In general, I think that often times when people feel the need to say "use the search", they should just reconsider whether it's truly worth the time and effort it would take them to post that at all.

Post of the month right there!

All that and....I believe it defeats the purpose of a FORUM to automatically shove every question asking person into the Search Pipeline. Hey, maybe we did beat that topic to death last month, but who am I to say that you have absolutely no new information to add for the common good? I'm not going to be the one who is unknowingly responsible for possibly shutting down someone who may just have a point no one else has ever thought about before.

I'm reminded of a story a co worker told me. He was hunting once and looking for a blood trail. They figured they would use their red lights so as to not ruin their night vision. Of course they were finding nothing. Then another hunter from another group ran across them and asked what was up. They told him and all he did was turn on a white light. Lo and behold they were pretty much surrounded by blood trail. They were SO focused on the issue at hand they failed to see a solution. I think sometimes some of us are so focused on the subject at hand, we fail to see the solution. Some "noob" walks up and maybe, just maybe they are holding a white flashlight.

Just my $0.02.....

 

[ArcticKat]

No one is forced to answer. JJ has a good point.

And I agreed with him, did I not? Not sure what your point is?

 

[medic417]

And I agreed with him, did I not? Not sure what your point is?

Just search and you shall find your answer.

:rofl:

 

[Anjel]

so that users don't have to answer the same questions over and over.

I was just saying people dont HAVE to answer.

Dont get snippy with me.

 

[Sasha]

Well.. that's good in general...

But the search for "stethoscope" brings up:

Which Littmann Stethoscope are you using??
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=21294&highlight=stethescope

The Stethoscope Mega Thread
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=6096&highlight=stethescope

Stethescope
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=19852&highlight=stethescope

JUST from the first page.

Boots brings up:

Best Boots for the money
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=24114&highlight=boots

and various other uniform threads.

Sorry, those questions are redundant. There is no new perspective to bring to those threads, no changes in protocol or no new studies... So while it is impossible not to have repeat threads, the scope/boot threads are just pure laziness that bring absolutely nothing new to the forum.

No you don't have to reply, but it gets tiresome seeing it time and time again, and it's the same crap everytime.

"What scope should I get?"
"lol dude littmann cardiology nephrology master epic elite even though I don't do anything other than BP and lung sounds you NEED super expensive scope"
"lolol do they come in pure black?"
"Of course dude!"

 

[medic417]

No you don't have to reply, but it gets tiresome seeing it time and time again, and it's the same crap everytime.

"What scope should I get?"
"lol dude littmann cardiology nephrology master epic elite even though I don't do anything other than BP and lung sounds you NEED super expensive scope"
"lolol do they come in pure black?"
"Of course dude!"

Now dudette don't be dissing on my supersonic pimped out auscutating device.

You know the ones that bug me are the ones that state they did not even try a search. At least look at the first page of search results then state hey I tried search but did not find this point I am asking about.

 

[JJR512]

Sasha does have a point. Not to disagree with anything I said previously, but there are certain topics that get discussed to the point that they're disgusting.

But even these can be handled in a more constructive fashion.

Let's use the "What should I get in my own personal EMS bag" topic as an example. It seems this is something that gets asked once a week or so. Some people answer with "use the search", a response that I will hold up to my previous reply. Other people, though, will constructively answer the question. But for something that gets asked so frequently, even answering the question constructively can actually be a disservice to the community at large.

What do I mean by that? Well, consider the person who posts a question like this. He or she is likely to consider only the handful of helpful replies, which means any helpful information that has previously been posted on this same topic will not likely ever get noticed by this hypothetical person. This person may never come across the wealth of information that's come before, because they think that the few answers they get to their own question are the only answers forthcoming.

For very common topics, it might be a better idea to create a unified thread (one for each specific topic), and make it a sticky. Then whenever someone comes along and asks, "What stethoscope should I get," or "What boots should I buy," or "What should I put in my own EMS bag," a Community Leader can lock the thread and post a link to the sticky, and politely direct the OP to read the thread first, and then post any more specific questions in that thread if it hasn't already been answered.

I don't feel that this would stifle discussion as much as it would put a lot of valuable and related information on one specific, common topic all in one place so that it can be used as an ongoing, living reference resource.

 

[ArcticKat]

Dont get snippy with me.

Yes Mistress.

 

[Anjel]

Yes Mistress.

Hmm... I like that

 

[Aidey]

Search may not be the wondertool, but self sufficiency and being able to figure something out for yourself is.

I'm not against people asking for help, but I think people should make an honest attempt to solve the problem themselves first. The information is out there, it is just a matter of finding it. Using google may produce more results than you need, but being able to process that information and discriminate between what is useful and what isn't is an important skill to have.

It is easier and quicker to make a thread and ask the question, but you don't get nearly as much out of it as you would if you did the research yourself. The more effort you put into learning something the more likely you are to remember it. You may also get answers to questions you didn't know you had yet.

 

[Chimpie]

Search may not be the wondertool, but self sufficiency and being able to figure something out for yourself is.

I'm not against people asking for help, but I think people should make an honest attempt to solve the problem themselves first. The information is out there, it is just a matter of finding it. Using google may produce more results than you need, but being able to process that information and discriminate between what is useful and what isn't is an important skill to have.

It is easier and quicker to make a thread and ask the question, but you don't get nearly as much out of it as you would if you did the research yourself. The more effort you put into learning something the more likely you are to remember it. You may also get answers to questions you didn't know you had yet.

A discussion forum is a way of doing research.

About 75% of the traffic we receive is from search engine results. What that translates to is someone going into Google, entering a query and our site popping up as a result of what they are looking for. They may read a thread or two, but they may not be satisified with the result(s). So they start a thread.

A discussion forum is for just that, a discussion. It's not for a user to be told to go elsewhere when they post a question.

 

[Aidey]

Oh, good 75% of the people here already know how to use Google. That is higher than I would have guessed. ^_^

There is a difference between a discussion and feeding someone answers because they won't make the effort to find them. Discussion comes into play when someone is exploring or challenging the answers they find. I am speaking from experience here, as my current partner is one of those people and he is nearly disabled by it. It takes talent to not know what traffic looks like in a construction zone during rush hour and have to ask if traffic is backed up or not.

The most primary function of our job is gathering information. It is absolutely necessary to be able to do that via different route if your primary option is not available. Even if you get your question answered you should confirm it via another route/source.