Paramedic Practitioner? Masters degree and future of EMS

triemal04

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Sure I've heard of that. But that's not what he was talking about. Maybe you should re-read the original post on this topic.

The only agenda here is the one where someone tries to prove that one group of practitioners is inherently incompetent, yet another group is virtually infallible, using a singular and likely inaccurate anecdote.
What in god's name are you talking about? Seriously, is it just that anytime someone questions someone or points out a flaw in someone in the same/similar profession as you that you automatically tune out and disagree? This is what was posted originally:
Grandma went to a Nurses Practitioner who nearly killed her. I just wasn't impressed with the Np as she seemed uncertain and unskilled. The Np wrote a prescription for twice the lethal dose of a muscle relaxant. The pharmacist refused to fill it and called the Np to explain.
Do you really think that nobody, no doctor, no PA, no NP has ever mistakenly written "gram" when they meant to write "milligram" or "microgram" on a prescription? Or added a zero or two to the dose? Misplaced the decimal point? Do you not understand that, depending on the drug, taking several grams instead of several milligrams or micrograms could potentially be a lethal dose?

People with agendas are generally not worth dealing with. You friend, fall into that category.
 

DPM

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Huh...guess you've never heard of someone mistaking gram for milligram...or milligram for microgram...or any of the other ways you could accidently write the wrong dosage...

There's lots of agendas out there apparently.
Are you arguing then that's there's no point in seeking higher education because some people who have degrees sometimes make mistakes? Maybe no one should attempt to learn anything... I mean, we all make mistakes already! Higher education will only make things worse, right?
 

triemal04

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Are you arguing then that's there's no point in seeking higher education because some people who have degrees sometimes make mistakes? Maybe no one should attempt to learn anything... I mean, we all make mistakes already! Higher education will only make things worse, right?
Wait...what? Now I'm really confused. I'm just pointing out that to immediately discount the story that EMTinCT relayed, which unfortunately is not far-fetched (mistakes do happen, and it's not unheard of, or hard to accidently use the wrong unit of mass, or misplace a decimal point or whatever) as a certain poster has done...well...maybe it's not the smartest thing to do that.
 

DPM

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I quoted incorrectly previously, but the sentiment is still valid. There are people commenting on this thread who are arguing against higher education because other educated people are making mistakes... My mind is blown. (Which is probably why I can't quote...)
 

Carlos Danger

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What in god's name are you talking about? Seriously, is it just that anytime someone questions someone or points out a flaw in someone in the same/similar profession as you that you automatically tune out and disagree? This is what was posted originally:

Do you really think that nobody, no doctor, no PA, no NP has ever mistakenly written "gram" when they meant to write "milligram" or "microgram" on a prescription? Or added a zero or two to the dose? Misplaced the decimal point? Do you not understand that, depending on the drug, taking several grams instead of several milligrams or micrograms could potentially be a lethal dose?

People with agendas are generally not worth dealing with. You friend, fall into that category.
Oh, triemal. Still having a hard time figuring out the point of all this?

First, let me make sure I understand your position: You have no problem with someone publicly saying essentially that "provider group A is incompetent because I saw one of them make a big mistake once, but provider group B is awesome because I dealt with one once who did a great job" (not what was actually written, of course, but was clearly the implication), and supporting that position with a single, questionable example. But you DO have a problem with someone else coming along and saying "No, you can't draw conclusions about an entire group based on a single example, especially when that example is dubious". And you think that response shows an agenda of some sort, but the original claim does not? Obviously, you and I have very different standards for what constitutes evidence of an agenda.

What seems just beyond your grasp is the fact that whether this NP actually made the error in question is completely irrelevant. Yes, I did express doubt that it happened as described - there are several reasons why I think that's unlikely, and we can discuss those separately if you want to. However, I also did concede that it could have happened, because of course med errors happen. Maybe you missed that? Again, that's not the real issue here at all.

The real issue is the logical fallacy of claiming that one group of providers is incompetent but the other is not, because of a single interaction. Doesn't matter what specific mistake was made, who made it, or whether it was as bad as described. It's a false generalization either way, and I would have called it out whether the person in the story making the mistake was the NP, PA, CRNA, MD, DO, gay, straight, black, white, whatever.
 
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triemal04

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Remi...dear...I'm serious. You are clearly biased on this particular topic with your own agenda. There is no point in talking with you about this, because what follows wouldn't be a discussion; it would be you mouthing the party line and refusing to consider facts and alternate views. So why bother?
 

Brandon O

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The main problem is that (as demonstrated), many people's experience with midlevels remains limited, so when one of them does something dumb, they figure "all NPs are dumb," whereas when a physician does something dumb, they figure that guy was dumb.

[cf. the entire worldly history of human prejudice]
 

triemal04

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The main problem is that (as demonstrated), many people's experience with midlevels remains limited, so when one of them does something dumb, they figure "all NPs are dumb," whereas when a physician does something dumb, they figure that guy was dumb.

[cf. the entire worldly history of human prejudice]
Yep. A very clear, and easy to see reason why what happened to EMTinCT could color his view of NP's in a very negative way. Doesn't make it right at all, but when someone's first experience is negative (especially if that is their ONLY experience ever) and they may have previously heard or hear negative things about that group...that is how uninformed prejudices start.
 

Summit

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Yep. A very clear, and easy to see reason why what happened to EMTinCT could color his view of NP's in a very negative way. Doesn't make it right at all, but when someone's first experience is negative (especially if that is their ONLY experience ever) and they may have previously heard or hear negative things about that group...that is how uninformed prejudices start.
I'm glad to see you now approve of Remi calling out such anecdotally based prejudice
 

triemal04

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I'm glad to see you now approve of Remi calling out such anecdotally based prejudice
It's not that, he's quite right in that regard; what I take issue with is the immediate and repeatedly stated opinion of "that's BS, it couldn't happen" when the mistake that EMTinCT mentioned is unfortunately an easy one to make, and very easily could have happened. Just as EMTinCT shouldn't use that singular experience to form his views of NP's, Remi shouldn't discount what happened as "BS" because he happens to also be an advanced practice nurse.
 

Carlos Danger

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It's not that, he's quite right in that regard; what I take issue with is the immediate and repeatedly stated opinion of "that's BS, it couldn't happen" when the mistake that EMTinCT mentioned is unfortunately an easy one to make, and very easily could have happened. Just as EMTinCT shouldn't use that singular experience to form his views of NP's, Remi shouldn't discount what happened as "BS" because he happens to also be an advanced practice nurse.
You are misrepresenting what I said, and still ignoring the overall point to focus on a minor statement that actually has no bearing on the meaning of what I wrote.

Please quote where I wrote that "it couldn't happen".
 

Tigger

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You know, just because you (plural) can argue about literally everything, does not mean you have to. Let it go.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN, CEN
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Awesome! I'm not the only one who catches sh*t for my comments!
 

EMTinCT

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Wow, I totally didn't mean to stir up such a debate! Sorry! Grandma says that she knows there are people in every profession that are good and bad. We once called a plumber for the basement pipes and the guy who replaced the busted pipe used the wrong diameter (too small) and this made the problem worse. Grandma called a different plumber who fixed it right away. She says that the first guy was either having a bad day or is a bad plumber but that don't mean all plumbers are bad.

Then again I once looked at the NP education and I was shocked to see a lot of weird classes. Grandma told me they are called "fluff" classes.
 

Brandon O

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I think the nurses might agree with that part.
 

Carlos Danger

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You guys do realize that EMTinCT is a troll, right?
 

Summit

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You know, just because you (plural) can argue about literally everything, does not mean you have to. Let it go.
C'mon dude... mods should have deleted that original inflammatory nonsequitor that everyone knew would turn into this multipage distraction from the original thread topic... well now look at the thread. Hey, now the troll is back with some more great "Grandma always said" crap.
 

triemal04

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Wow, I totally didn't mean to stir up such a debate! Sorry! Grandma says that she knows there are people in every profession that are good and bad. We once called a plumber for the basement pipes and the guy who replaced the busted pipe used the wrong diameter (too small) and this made the problem worse. Grandma called a different plumber who fixed it right away. She says that the first guy was either having a bad day or is a bad plumber but that don't mean all plumbers are bad.

Then again I once looked at the NP education and I was shocked to see a lot of weird classes. Grandma told me they are called "fluff" classes.
My grandma says that your grandma likes to stir the pot. Well played, well played.
 

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