paid vs volley (closed)

[MrBrown]

Brown is quite honestly anti volunteers. While volunteers should be celebrated and rewarded for being such humane and civic minded souls for giving up thier free time to help others which is all very well and good, they are the lowest common denominator that the system will always cater for,

They operate a lower clinical competency level, have less clinical knowledge and exposure, are overly behavourist in thier clinical approach and are generally anti-education as a byproduct of thier ability to commit only limited time to Ambulance service.

As an example, our volunteer Officers are educated to about half the level of a first year student Paramedic. While they are very confident in the behaviourist psychomotor aspects of thier scope of practice they lack a solid cognitive foundation of knowledge as they simply do not have the time to commit to undertaking the level of study required to obtain it.

 

[Tommerag]

MrBrown I would have to say you are stereotyping. I know and understand most volly depts get that kind of reputation from most full time services. However my volly dept I am on, I would have to disagree. There are a few of us (and by a few of us I mean the ones that show up to almost all of the calls we get) don't stop at the EMT-B/I level. We continue to take many classes that will help us be a better service to our community. I have recently been accepted into paramedic school. Now yes I plan on doing this full time as well, but I also am going to paramedic school to help my dept.

Now I know there are some people that think every EMS/Fire dept should no longer be on a volunteer basis but the reality is, is that the communities can not fund such programs do to the costs of doing this. It all depends on the members of the volly departments and how seriously they take it. Everyone is busy but if members are serious about being a member of their EMS/Fire dept they will continue to get educated and provide better service to their community.

 

[emt seeking first job]

Brown is quite honestly anti volunteers. While volunteers should be celebrated and rewarded for being such humane and civic minded souls for giving up thier free time to help others which is all very well and good, they are the lowest common denominator that the system will always cater for,

They operate a lower clinical competency level, have less clinical knowledge and exposure, are overly behavourist in thier clinical approach and are generally anti-education as a byproduct of thier ability to commit only limited time to Ambulance service.

As an example, our volunteer Officers are educated to about half the level of a first year student Paramedic. While they are very confident in the behaviourist psychomotor aspects of thier scope of practice they lack a solid cognitive foundation of knowledge as they simply do not have the time to commit to undertaking the level of study required to obtain it.

That may be the case in your area.

However, In NYC, nothing could be further from the truth.

Where I volunteer, there are several paid, EMTs, Medics, and a few LPNs.

They are called to serve, the enjoy the interaction of the organization, they enjoy teaching newbies....

For me, it is the ONLY way to get experience. I am getting it, slowly, less than a paying full time job, but more than if I had NOT joined.

Some people butt heads and go on power trips, some family men use it as a mechanism to avoid their familes, etc......but non of these issues affects patient care.

Google FDNY emt or paramedic with the word "arrested."

More than one PARAMEDICS will forgo overtime in their paid jobs to work for free as EMTs.......

This is not my service, but Central Park's vollies have MDs working as EMTs...

The quality of service we provide I would say exceeds some paid services. In fact, the local NYPD will call us in to take over when they get called for disputes between paid 911 responders and patients/families.

This does not reflect all volunteers everywhere and not even all in NYC but I am fortunate to be in an outstanding service.

Dont paint all vollies with the same brush.

If it is not for you, do not do it......

 

[MrBrown]

There are a few of us (and by a few of us I mean the ones that show up to almost all of the calls we get) don't stop at the EMT-B/I level. We continue to take many classes that will help us be a better service to our community.

By "class" do you mean something like university level biology, chemistry, lifespan development, anatomy physiology, cardiology or paramedic science or are you talking about weekend alphabet soup classes that agian, teach a lot of practical skills but very little underlying cognitive theory?

 

[slb862]

As a Paramedic "volley" team member, I would like to comment that ALL of the Paramedics I work with are seasoned medics. Each and everyone of us either have worked a fulltime, paid service, and/or still work for a fulltime paid service. I, myself, do the volunteer thingy, one weekend a month. (I am a seasoned medic, since 1992) I average 7 to 10 calls, during my shift. I keep my skills, knowledge, and certifications up to NREMT-P standard and beyond. All of the team members keep up their certifications.
I love this job. I am a people person and take great pride that I am able to assist, anyone, at their time of need.
The service I work for was a "pilot program", to see if there was a need, for Paramedic's in the rural setting. We have 15 Paramedic's that volunteer, with about 25 EMT-I and EMT-B's, (oh and countless First Responders) all of whom volunteer. We run three people on a truck, 24/7/365. Plus, we have a chase unit, that the "on duty" Paramedic will take, when we are requested from an outside non-paramedic service. Which has become a quite often request. The nearest hospital is 15 minutes away, on a good day.

Both rural and metro services, whether basic and up to paramedic, see the same calls, just different numbers. It is not lack of "calls", it is what YOU do with your training, knowledge and it's upkeep.

I truely believe in EMS. I truely commend anyone working in this system.

 

[Melclin]

Brown is quite honestly anti volunteers. While volunteers should be celebrated and rewarded for being such humane and civic minded souls for giving up thier free time to help others which is all very well and good, they are the lowest common denominator that the system will always cater for,

They operate a lower clinical competency level, have less clinical knowledge and exposure, are overly behavourist in thier clinical approach and are generally anti-education as a byproduct of thier ability to commit only limited time to Ambulance service.

As an example, our volunteer Officers are educated to about half the level of a first year student Paramedic. While they are very confident in the behaviourist psychomotor aspects of thier scope of practice they lack a solid cognitive foundation of knowledge as they simply do not have the time to commit to undertaking the level of study required to obtain it.

I don't like the volly system you have either.

The thing with vollies is direct oversight. I think you can have a decent first aid post with 6 volies and an RN. Without the RN though....

I agree two volly techs on an ambulance is not the way to go. No matter how well intentioned they are. One medic one volly though...

We have quite a large collection of vollies and semi vollies in AV (for those across the puddle, that means the state Ambulance service, nothing to do with St Johns). I know you know some of this Brown, but just to inject the idea into the discussion for everyone. We have two levels that are not proper paramedics, both are necessities of rural life. They are not desirable. If it could be otherwise, it would be.

We have Ambulance Community Officers who do receive some pay based on the jobs they are called to I believe. They usually work a paramedic/ACO and have strict protocols when working ACO/ACO. Their pts have to be either crazy sick with no paramedic back up, or crazy not sick, for them to transport. They are generally quite competent and have far more training and ongoing education than EMTs.

We also have Community Emergency Response Teams that respond on a volunteer basis only to life threatening emergencies. I've heard mixed reports about their competancy, but none the less they still have much more ongoing education and guidance than the American EMT. Again they have strict protocols for ASA, Nitrates, Pain relief, Salbutamol, Epipens, Glucose paste. They respond in SUVs and cannot transport.

Both are volunteers/almost volunteers. Importantly, they are backed up by paramedics on most jobs (all jobs for CERTs) and they both have extensive ongoing clinical education and guidance (as far as I know), all the ACOs and CERTs I've met have been dedicated to furthering their education and knew their limits. These factors are responsible for their being acceptable Volunteer responses to low call volume rural areas.

 

[emt seeking first job]

By "class" do you mean something like university level biology, chemistry, lifespan development, anatomy physiology, cardiology or paramedic science or are you talking about weekend alphabet soup classes that agian, teach a lot of practical skills but very little underlying cognitive theory?

Education is a good thing, equally good is experience, at the level of EMT, nobody needs "underlying cognitive therapy", it does not hurt, but for first responder EMS, not needed.

One EMT in my service is a truck driver who never finished High School. He has been doing this for 15 years. He can do everything that needs to be done including writing the PCR. He is very competent at responding to a scene, controlling the scene, stabilizing the patient, transporting to a hospital, and effectively and with brevity presenting the case to the ER team. He knows the protocols COLD. He is very disciplined , when on duty, and his heart is in the right place.

My ex-gf has two medical schools under her belt, one in Europe, one in the US, a US residency, two fellowships, and a position at a major medical center.

She is very analytical and a competent in hospital care provider, but if :censored::censored::censored::censored: went down on the street, I would take the high school drop out over her without question.

In terms of managing the case in the hospital, my ex would be a better choice.

There is a place for everyone, with a good heart and good discipline in this world. Not everyone needs a formal education....

 

[Chimpie]

the paid vs volley posts from the other thread have been moved here and this thread is closed.