NREMT CBT, A joke.

[jlsparky7]

I am a basic EMT in Michigan and have been for 3 years. I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%. I have taken the NR medic computerized test twice now and was below passing in all catagories. Both of my tests ended right around the 80 question mark. I have read all of my 7 textbooks from my class 3 times each cover to cover highlighting and taking notes. The books each had a CD that had a series of questions and scenarios at the end which I went over. I also have an ACLS/12 lead paperback and a National registry practice book. None of which seemed to help. I am going back to part time next week and putting it all on the line so I can start studying more and hopefully pass this 3rd try.

Im sure several people will agree with me. Some of the dumbest basics I know have passed the NREMTP national registry first try. Some of these people couldnt find there way out of a paper bag and openly admit they should not be paramedics. I dont get how national registry can hold back the eager prepared basics with experience and knowledge of pre-hospital care, yet pass these incompitent basics on to be paramedics that I wouldnt trust to do CPR on my dog.

The reason medics mess up so much in the field and the reason there is such a shortage of medics everywhere is simple.
1. For the most part the wrong people pass national registry. Mostly book smart people, Not people that think practically.
2. My last test I had 3 ropes and knots questions. What does that have to do with being a paramedic? I know there are fake questions but to have 3 of my 80 questions have nothing to do with being a paramedic? What a joke.
3. We know the practical for the most part is a peice of cake, although it is much more accurate in deciding who should be a paramedic than the written exam. Why not have a field exam option?
4. Where do they get these questions and drugs from? A lot of the questions I got were things that were NEVER mentioned in the paramedic books I have, I checked after the test. Ive also been a field basic for 3 years as I mentioned earlier and have NEVER heard of some of the meds they mention. I have copied THOUSANDS of meds from patient charts and never heard of most of them.
5. Not enough information to the answer the question!!!!! (this question is not from memory just an example)

45 year old female with abdominal pain. Whats causing the pain?
A.Ectopic pregnancy
B.Kidney stone
C.AAA
D.AMI
They dont give you information that will almost ALWAYS be available to you in the field. (OPQRST, Vitals, MOI) unbelievable.

What are your thoughts?
Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.

 

[KEVD18]

Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.

the saddest part about the whole thing is that whats holding you back from being a firefighter is not being able to be a paramedic(yet). god i hate this system...........

imagine if everybody who wanted to be a cop had to be a boat captain. or if everybody that wanted to be a chef had to be a carpenter.

for the love of all that is good and holy why cant people just be required to do the job they signed up for and leave the other job to the guy that actually wants it.

 

[marineman]

First you say the practical exam is a joke and then you say it should be used to decide who gets in the field? There are enough jokes of paramedics out there, we don't need any more by making the test even easier. I haven't taken the paramedic exam yet but I gather it's written in a similar manner to the basic exam and actually I find that it's written very well. You see when they write scenarios and don't tell you 100% about the condition it forces you to use some critical thinking rather than memorizing what the book says to do for this or that. Paramedics are not supposed to use cookbook medicine so somewhere along the line critical thinking skills must be tested and lets face it, the practical does nothing for critical thinking since you can memorize the entire check sheet you're tested on ahead of time.

Yes there can be medics that pass the test that are only "booksmart" but they tend to naturally weed themselves out down the road as they realize they can't handle patients. In this profession you need to be well rounded with both booksmarts and streetsmarts. I could care less that you know how to cut my neck open and stick a tube in it if you don't know when or why to do it. I could care less about all those drugs you carry in that fancy lockbox if you don't know how and why they work on me.

That said, I agree with Kev it is very sad that so many career firefighters are forced into being medics that want nothing to do with EMS. Hopefully you find a way to get that dream job but maybe EMS just isn't in the cards.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

I agree with marineman, yo ualso have to develop critical thinking skills. You must learn to take what the textbook gives you and extend it out another 2-3 steps. The only way to get better at this is to practice, but memorizing your text won't help yo if you don't actually understand what you are reading.

 

[FF894]

for the love of all that is good and holy why cant people just be required to do the job they signed up for and leave the other job to the guy that actually wants it.

:wacko:Hmm, he's got a point here...:wacko:

 

[VentMedic]

I am a basic EMT in Michigan. I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.

Why don't you just find a nice FD somewhere to work as a FF where maybe the only medical cert you need is First Responder or EMT?

Why not have a field exam option?

A lot of the questions I got were things that were NEVER mentioned in the paramedic books I have,

have NEVER heard of some of the meds they mention.

It would be so nice if all of the medical problems were just in that one little book? MEDICINE would be so much easier if patients were allowed just to have those few working "field" diagnoses.

Ever think about taking a real college A&P or Pharmacology class?

Michigan is also one of those states fighting accreditation for Paramedic programs. It is possible your school was very lenient with your 92% to just get their own "push 'em through" numbers up.

 

[Ridryder911]

Don't know if I would publicly whine if I failed to meet the minimum national standards of safety to a patient. Yes, that's is all the test is asking from one.

Remember it is NOT the NREMT that holds back anyone! It is only a testing agency. Would you say that the NCLEX is holding back RN's, or the State Bar test holding back attorneys? Would you truly trust and individual that cannot prove to meet the minimal standards of safety? Sure, there is those that fall through the cracks in any profession as well as those that never pass that probably could perform the minimal level. That is life and nothing is absolute, unfortunately no profession can be exact.

Now think, if one can not pass a written level examination, can they be entrusted to be intellectually sufficient to be able to keep up ? If one cannot even memorize a skill sheet and with repeated practice, really can be entrusted to provide safe care? Really, anyone can and should be able to pass any skill with repeated practice. If they cannot; I doubt their intelligence in being able to remember what to do in the real life. Would you really trust someone that could not remember what to do?

Now, you may acclaim that those you would not "want to do CPR on your dog" or portrayed as being less smart; actually some how maybe smarter than you.?.. They passed. What does that reflect upon you? Maybe your study skill is poor or test taking skills is lacking. Usually one does not have poor results in both written and skills.

In regards to the given example question. Anyone with any type of medical knowledge should have a knowledge of what the most appropriate answer would be. If you do not, then you do not have the required medical knowledge to be in medicine. Apparently, you have not learned medicine rather attempted to memorize. Medicine is not strictly black and white, it is a science with the application of art. This why many of those in Fire Services cannot pass such type test. It requires critical thinking skills, not just performing tasks. These are proven facts and why many fire services are protesting such type tests.. one has to make rationale decisions with sound judgement.

Yes, it is unfortunate Fire Services require this level. Fire Service is usually a task performance profession, one is hired for below the neck line for performance. Not all; but in general.

R/r 911

 

[JPINFV]

You know, if I had the choice of a medic who couldn't find his bum with two hands and a map or someone who thinks that experience as a basic makes it his God given right to be a paramedic even if he can't pass a test on national standards, I'd take the former.

 

[reaper]

As Rid pointed out. The example question you put down has one obvious answer, that you should know. If this is the questions you are missing, then you need to rethink how you were educated. There is nothing wrong with the NREMT-P CBT. It is mainly common sense, with some critical thinking mixed in!

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

Why don't you just find a nice FD somewhere to work as a FF where maybe the only medical cert you need is First Responder or EMT?





It would be so nice if all of the medical problems were just in that one little book? MEDICINE would be so much easier if patients were allowed just to have those few working "field" diagnoses.

Ever think about taking a real college A&P or Pharmacology class?

Michigan is also one of those states fighting accreditation for Paramedic programs. It is possible your school was very lenient with your 92% to just get their own "push 'em through" numbers up.

I am a basic EMT in Michigan and have been for 3 years. I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%. I have taken the NR medic computerized test twice now and was below passing in all catagories. Both of my tests ended right around the 80 question mark. I have read all of my 7 textbooks from my class 3 times each cover to cover highlighting and taking notes. The books each had a CD that had a series of questions and scenarios at the end which I went over. I also have an ACLS/12 lead paperback and a National registry practice book. None of which seemed to help. I am going back to part time next week and putting it all on the line so I can start studying more and hopefully pass this 3rd try.

Im sure several people will agree with me. Some of the dumbest basics I know have passed the NREMTP national registry first try. Some of these people couldnt find there way out of a paper bag and openly admit they should not be paramedics. I dont get how national registry can hold back the eager prepared basics with experience and knowledge of pre-hospital care, yet pass these incompitent basics on to be paramedics that I wouldnt trust to do CPR on my dog.

The reason medics mess up so much in the field and the reason there is such a shortage of medics everywhere is simple.
1. For the most part the wrong people pass national registry. Mostly book smart people, Not people that think practically.
2. My last test I had 3 ropes and knots questions. What does that have to do with being a paramedic? I know there are fake questions but to have 3 of my 80 questions have nothing to do with being a paramedic? What a joke.
3. We know the practical for the most part is a peice of cake, although it is much more accurate in deciding who should be a paramedic than the written exam. Why not have a field exam option?
4. Where do they get these questions and drugs from? A lot of the questions I got were things that were NEVER mentioned in the paramedic books I have, I checked after the test. Ive also been a field basic for 3 years as I mentioned earlier and have NEVER heard of some of the meds they mention. I have copied THOUSANDS of meds from patient charts and never heard of most of them.
5. Not enough information to the answer the question!!!!! (this question is not from memory just an example)

45 year old female with abdominal pain. Whats causing the pain?
A.Ectopic pregnancy
B.Kidney stone
C.AAA
D.AMI
They dont give you information that will almost ALWAYS be available to you in the field. (OPQRST, Vitals, MOI) unbelievable.

What are your thoughts?
Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.

One does not make blanket statements off of an isolated incident. However, this speaks volumes.

Sparky, if you understand the "why", then the "what" and the "how" will make sense. That door swings both ways. If you don't understand the "why", then the "what" and the "how" won't make sense.

The NR can only test you on the information in the given question. If the information is not there then they can't test you on it. What a lot of people do is read too much into any given question. That's where you fail. You're over thinking. What you've done is you've ended up believing you're right and everyone else is wrong. Stop. It's counterproductive as made evident of your scores. Just answer the questions... and only the questions. Don't read into them.

The NR is not rocket science. I know. I know a guy who use to build missiles for Lockhead-Martin. D'ems rockets. He knows what rocket science is. Dis ain't it.

Relax. Breathe. And pass the cotton-pickin' test.

 

[daedalus]

Im going to say its not AMI, because females are less likely to experience pain as a symptom of MI.

Its probably not AAA because it's typical presentation in tearing back pain.

Kidney stone might refer to the back or flank

Ectopic pregnancy is more likely with the age and obviously the gender.

I know all of this as a basic.

 

[gillysaurus]

^ It's interesting you break it down that way, because I was thinking AAA based solely on "what would kill her first?" and rule out options from there.

 

[reaper]

Female age 8-80 with abd pain, think ectopic first.

 

[petekf4qoe]

NREMT CBT, A joke

Ok, here is my 2 cents worth on this subject. If you have not heard of a guy named Jon Puryer you need to learn about him. Here in the Alabama area we had a very, very, very poor pass rate for National Registry.

Jon Puryear is the Assistant to the Medical Director and is responsible for the majority of activities in the EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS ADVISORY BOARD in the state of Texas. This is probably smartest man I have have ever met when it comes to Emergency Medicine. He has a class that he teaches for the NREMT-Paramedic exam. His class does not give you the answers. It just lays it out on how to take the test in a way you would be able to understand it and pass on the first try. I took the class and then took registry and passed it on my first try. We had 15 people in our class and most all either attended the class or got the disc and listened to the class. so far 10 out of the 15 have passed registry. The other 5 either did not listen to the disc or did not put much effort into it like the rest of us. I cannot say enough about how much we all learned in just the 16 hours of taking his class. I should say that we did not really learn any more, we really just learned how to understand what we already had learned. He sells a copy of the class on his website.

I am in no way connected to him or his website other then being one of his past students.

Here is some other people taalking about his class: http://www.texasemt.com/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2040

Here is all of his contact information:

Jon Puryear
www.nationalregistryprep.com


P.S.:
The answer to this question is "A" it is always "A" until proven otherwise.

45 year old female with abdominal pain. Whats causing the pain?
A.Ectopic pregnancy
B.Kidney stone
C.AAA
D.AMI

 

[gillysaurus]

Guess that's why I'm still a basic

 

[bstone]

You have a lot of very good points. I am a huge fan of clearly written, unambiguous questions that have enough info to pick the right answer. Your complaints are not old or invalid.

 

[ffemt8978]

Disregard post.

 

[Ridryder911]

If your state has a poor rate on NREMT then it is because they are not teaching to National Standards. Sorry, that is all the NREMT is taken from and along with AHA ACLS and PHTLS. All national standard material


R/r 911

 

[Sjames]

Well to answer you question its right out of Brady's EMT-B book.

 

[jlsparky7]

First you say the practical exam is a joke and then you say it should be used to decide who gets in the field? There are enough jokes of paramedics out there, we don't need any more by making the test even easier. I haven't taken the paramedic exam yet but I gather it's written in a similar manner to the basic exam and actually I find that it's written very well. You see when they write scenarios and don't tell you 100% about the condition it forces you to use some critical thinking rather than memorizing what the book says to do for this or that. Paramedics are not supposed to use cookbook medicine so somewhere along the line critical thinking skills must be tested and lets face it, the practical does nothing for critical thinking since you can memorize the entire check sheet you're tested on ahead of time.

Yes there can be medics that pass the test that are only "booksmart" but they tend to naturally weed themselves out down the road as they realize they can't handle patients. In this profession you need to be well rounded with both booksmarts and streetsmarts. I could care less that you know how to cut my neck open and stick a tube in it if you don't know when or why to do it. I could care less about all those drugs you carry in that fancy lockbox if you don't know how and why they work on me.

That said, I agree with Kev it is very sad that so many career firefighters are forced into being medics that want nothing to do with EMS. Hopefully you find a way to get that dream job but maybe EMS just isn't in the cards.

Yes I did say the pracitcal is a joke. No i didnt say it should determine anything. I said A FIELD TEST should be an option. Real life (with another paramedic there of course). Not dummies.

Most of being a paramedic isny critical thinking... Its applying protocols.

Most of the time those paramedics that slip through the testing process dont get weeded out. They get the kick *** career fire jobs.