i agree that ems lines are dirty, but hospitals aren't much cleaner. as as for nurses, i'd rather a nurse work a code than an emt too, but not a nursing home nurse. They are 2 way different levels.
Need For Definitive Care
- Thread starter Sasha
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i agree that ems lines are dirty, but hospitals aren't much cleaner. as as for nurses, i'd rather a nurse work a code than an emt too, but not a nursing home nurse. They are 2 way different levels.
Have you read the hospital policies for starting ANY line inside a hospital?
Are you saying a hospital is dirtier than a ditch or homes you've been in? Where do you work? Is it in the U.S.? Do they not have accreditation? Or, are you also trying to just be insulting to hospital staff?
There are many regulations as to why a NH does not have a crash or code cart. The nurses may once have been ICU trained/educated and ran codes but they must abide by the rules for the facility they work. The same goes for ambulances and EMS. Different states also have different licenses for IFT vehicles and EMTs can be found on many of them.
The crew in the OP displayed little to no knowledge of EMS. But, should they be the blanket statement for ALL EMTs just like some have done here with nurses or hospitals?
CAOX3
There is a huge difference between bashing and pointing out the inadequacies of EMS education. If you think EMTs have been bashed on THIS forum, you have truly led a sheltered life or have very thin skin.
When some who have NO hospital experience and are in no way familiar with CCTs, HEMS, RNs or CCRNs but can state with their own perceived authority that they know exactly what these individuals can and can not, there lies the problem. Again, that dirty little word "EDUCATION" for some in EMS needs to be applied.
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first of all, you need to take a chill pill. second of all I work the biggest ambulance company in the USA. Third of all, i never said anything insulting about hospital staff, but maybe towards nursing home staff. And last of all, I never said hospitals were dirtier than ems, i just said that they aren't that sterile as you make them seem.
OP
OP
Sasha
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Cookie for you, then. Biggest doesn't always mean best, but that's beside the point.
Bash the nursing home nurses all you want, but remember when it comes right down to it, they still have more education than you. And as Vent stated, they could have way more emergency and critical care experience than the person they're handing their patients too.
JPINFV
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^
What does what ever size company you work for have anything to do with this? There are a ton of other people who work for AMR as well, and just being one in a herd of people doesn't bestow any sort of special authority to your posts.
edit: Damn it, Sasha, you snipped my post.
What does what ever size company you work for have anything to do with this? There are a ton of other people who work for AMR as well, and just being one in a herd of people doesn't bestow any sort of special authority to your posts.
edit: Damn it, Sasha, you snipped my post.
Did I state that? I dont think I did. I stated there is a perception that paramedics and nurses are similarly the same. There not. There is a difference between education and training. A biiiiiiiiig difference.
Dont misconstrude that a paramedic/EMT class held in the back of a garage on tuesday and wednesday nights in anyway constitutes education. I may be some things, what I am not is confused in that reguard.
You do realize RNs can challenge the Paramedic cert in many states?
Or, they can take a transition program in the other states consisting of 100 - 200 hours for either a Paramedic cert or a PHRN (title varies per state). The field clinicals may be different as well as the extrication techniques but the majority of the medical skills are the same. RNs may also have a stronger medical education foundation than the majority of medic mill paramedics. If you want to close the loop holes that allow RNs to use your credential as a "cert", you need to support advanced education throughout EMS and that also includes raising the education for EMT-Bs.
OP
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Sasha
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But you worded it a lot better than I did, and with out the sarcasm!
BossyCow
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So am I the only one who's thinking that a little common sense and respect would have gone a long way on this call? Instead of following the letter of the law, and using their head for something other than a space holder for their ears, the EMS responders should have transported the pt. When we get all bent up about the ego issues of who has power in which situation or who has better skills in a given area, we are losing perspective. An emergency requires doing something right now. If I remember back to my initial ARC FA training.. that's how they define emergency. Should that action be done by an RN, EMT-B, EMT-P, Doc or NA? Are you suggesting that if a pt codes, we should all compare certs before beginning CPR???? No, the important thing is that CPR is initiated and quickly.
I am going to be professional, courteous and respectful to everyone I run into on a call. I am going to be as polite to the CNA as I am to the Doc. Then I will do my job on the call. Doesn't seem all that difficult to me.
I am going to be professional, courteous and respectful to everyone I run into on a call. I am going to be as polite to the CNA as I am to the Doc. Then I will do my job on the call. Doesn't seem all that difficult to me.
RESQ_5_1
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Thanx for the info Vent. As far as how an ALS crew would run that call, the only thing I can't do is interpret the 12-lead. I can provide O2 (which we did). And I can start an IV (which occurred after the code). I can interpret 4-lead (not sure if that is definitive in this case. Could you elaborate).
But, the pt crashed quickly. Within 2 minutes of our arrival and before we could even complete our first set of vitals.
As far as pulling IV's, our Hosp staff doesn't do that. I'm not sure how it's taught in the US, but we use aseptic techniques. ALcohol swab at the site, Don't touch the needle, don't remove the cathlon from the packaging until you are ready to use it, prevent the line from touching the ground, no contact with the IV bag at the point of line insertion as well as the part of the IV line that goes into the bag, etc, etc, etc.
The OP's call is one where I would have transported as rapidly as possible to the ED while providing what care I could. If an ALS crew clears up that is close enough, then they can intercept. I don't see the point in delaying definitive care because I was uncomfortable with the call and felt it should go ALS.
But, the pt crashed quickly. Within 2 minutes of our arrival and before we could even complete our first set of vitals.
As far as pulling IV's, our Hosp staff doesn't do that. I'm not sure how it's taught in the US, but we use aseptic techniques. ALcohol swab at the site, Don't touch the needle, don't remove the cathlon from the packaging until you are ready to use it, prevent the line from touching the ground, no contact with the IV bag at the point of line insertion as well as the part of the IV line that goes into the bag, etc, etc, etc.
The OP's call is one where I would have transported as rapidly as possible to the ED while providing what care I could. If an ALS crew clears up that is close enough, then they can intercept. I don't see the point in delaying definitive care because I was uncomfortable with the call and felt it should go ALS.
RESQ_5_1
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AMR is the largest Ambulance service in the US and owned by Laidlaw. Laidlaw is the largest TRANSPORT company in Canada. They also run school buses.
whatever i give up. i'm tired of people trashing me when all i am trying to do is state my opinion(thought that was the purpose of a forum) but i'm just a "stupid basic that doesn't know anything." for some reason people think that because i'm "just a basic" that i care nothing about education even though i'm constantly looking for ways to further my education.
Yes they can, however the medic cannot challange the RN. That was my point.
AJ Hidell
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So you would deny others the right to give their opinions of your opinion?
It's not hard to find those ways, especially in Dallas. How long have you been looking for them, and what have you found? What have you done to further your education so far? I am very familiar with the Dallas area and would be happy to help you find ways to further your education.
AJ Hidell
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They can. It's just not as simple as sitting down for a half-hour test. You have to actually get real education first.
i believe that there is a big difference in giving an opinion and talking down to someone. I can understand if it was someone whose fresh out of emt school, but i've been on the streets for 3 years now so granted i obviously don't know everything but i sure know alot more than someone fresh out of school.
so far i've taken a&p1, pharmacology. i am currently taking a&p2 and microbiology. i am also interested in taking pepp and phtls(don't have time to take these till after this semester) and i've been reading a book given to me by my old partner about ekgs(want to get a head start) but i haven't been able to read it due to this semester of classes. Oh and i have a medic textbook that i started(again for a head start) and thanks for being nice, any advice i'd gladly take.
oh and i have a question, did you get your medic first or rn? i want to get my rn since it takes longer and then the medic. just was wondering what you think about that?
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reaper
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Someone may disagree with your opinion and that is fine. Everyone has the right to their opinions and everyone has the right to argue against it.
You are doing great by furthering your education. Kudos to you on that part.
Bringing up AMR is not going to get your posts any more credentials. Sorry, but they have been a joke for years. They are a great company to get a start at, while you work your way to a better place!
AJ Hidell
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Unfortunately, in the written environment of the Internet, it's almost impossible to disagree with someone's opinion without causing some level of offense or insult. That's the nature of it all. You can't take every disagreement personal. But, on the other hand, I agree that there is no excuse for blatant disrespect. We can have disagreement without disrespect.
In my world, three years is "fresh out of EMT school", lol. Three years -- or even ten years -- of EMT experience means nothing. It is the quality of that experience that holds the possibility of meaning something. We (or at least I) don't know what that experience really consists of. Personally, I give you a LOT more credit for the education you have achieved since EMT school (which significantly surpasses even most paramedics) than I do for your experience. Education provides the foundation for your knowledge and experience, not driving an ambulance.
Not necessarily. Some EMT schools turn out well trained and well prepared providers. Other EMT schools turn out people without a clue, and they remain clueless through five years of driving an IFT van. Again, time as an EMT really doesn't mean anything on the surface.
Excellent! You are doing all the right things. Every student can always reach down deep and give their education a little more effort. Do that now, while you are establishing your foundation. If the sciences come easy for you, don't settle for that minimum effort necessary to pass the tests with a good score. Strive for excellence. Strive to be the very best that you can possibly be. Get the most out of those courses, because there is no second chance to build a foundation.
As for the "head start", EKGs is really the only topic that I recommend for students to start early. This is because so many schools just really suck at teaching them. They overcomplicate it with poor educational technique. The orange "Rapid Interpretation of EKGs" book by Dubin is the only teacher you will ever need for EKGs. Seriously. It's a self-paced, programmed learning text that takes you from the very basics, all the way through advanced 12-lead interpretation, in as quickly as a couple of days, depending upon your pace. Each page builds on the learning of the previous page, like a workbook. There is no easier or better way to learn EKGs. Other than EKGs, the only head start that you need, or that I recommend, is that provided by A&P, Micro, Pharm, Algebra, Communications, Sociology, and Psychology. After all that, paramedic curriculum should come very easily to you. Any attempt to "get ahead" by randomly reading the textbook ahead of time -- out of order and out of context -- can prove counterproductive, so I do not recommend it.
You are spot-on in your thinking. Paramedicine is a very narrowly focused and specific education and practice style. Nursing is very broad based, intending to establish a foundation for practice on all persons, to be focused later by the individual practitioner. By choosing nursing first, you enter paramedicine with that broad foundation to build upon, and it makes you ten times the practitioner that you would ultimately become without it. Paramedics are taught a very myopic, cookbook approach to patient care, having very little true understanding of the conditions they are treating, or even the rationale for that treatment. As a nurse entering paramedicine, you will have that foundation, making it MUCH easier to grasp the concepts of paramedic practice. As a nurse entering paramedicine, you won't have to worry about the quality of your school or instructors. You won't have to worry if they know what they are doing, or if they are just teaching you to pass the test. You already know more medicine than them. All you have to learn from them as a nurse is simple skills, and how to function in the field. Nursing school before paramedic school is the very best possible course for professional preparation. In fact, I have come to believe that it should be a requirement, as it is in countries where EMS blows the US completely away.
Unfortunately, I was a paramedic for many years before I went to nursing school. I didn't think I needed all that book learnin. I thought they should just give me a nursing license, since I already had teh aw3some skillz. I was wrong. I didn't know jack. And if I had it to do all over again, I would have gone to nursing school right out of high school, before EMT school or paramedic school. There is absolutely no disputing that it is the best possible way to prepare a pre-hospital provider.
Best of luck!
when i first went to college, i was pre nursing, this was before my emt days. i came from a high school that i really didn't have to study to make b's so i never really learned how. my first year was an eye opening experience. i ended up dropping out after my first year and taking a year off. that is when i decided to go to emt school and work my way up. and a lot of the advice i've gotten from the nurses i work with now, was the same. do nursing first, then medic.
what do you think about the pepp and phtls classes? and is it possible for an emt to take an acls class, granted i know that i wouldn't be able to truly use it, but thought it would be cool.(yeah i'm a nerd)
oh that is the book that i was reading about ekgs. its funny cause he said the same thing about it being the only book i would need. lol.
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oh i am totally fine with someone disagree with my opinions, its the basis of life, it just seemed like sometimes people were degrading towards me(although i am a female, and i'm probably over reacting
) thanks, do you have any suggestions on what else i can do to further my education(other than going to medic and nursing school)?
and i'm not trying to get brownie points by mentioning that i work for amr, its just ventmedic p*ssed me off. and i agree that amr is a joke, but at the management level, not the emt or medic level. the upper management only cares about how they can screw over employees, and make more money. i think a better company to work for would be Medstar(which has a closed contract with Fort Worth) they make their emt's know how to read strips, so if the medic is busy tubing or something else, they can tell them something doesn't look right. they also expect them to know indications and contraindications for all the drugs even though they can't use them, but they will know which ones to grab without the medic having to tell them. the only problem with them is that they won't hire you if your in school, and they won't work around your school schedule, and my education is more important to me than getting better experience.