Lockpicking as an ems/fire skill

[TechMedic]

I had a call yesterday where a woman broke her ankle at home after slipping off the stairs. She was home alone and all the doors were locked. She had to crawl to the door to let us in, but not before We damaged her back door to get in.

Should it be acceptable for crews to learn and carry lock picks for these situations? It could be a faster and less destructive alternative to get into locked cars as well.

 

[chaz90]

There's no way it's faster than the destructive methods. If the situation is so non-urgent that you're considering using a lockpick, just call a locksmith instead of Fire/EMS. In your call yesterday, I suppose it was a mix of need to get to her and time to wait. If she weren't able to crawl to unlock the door, a single broken window wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.

 

[Household6]

Our area has a contract with a local towing company for emergencies.. They're expected to dispatch a truck and respond immediately..

But I may or may not possess one of those inflatable wedges for opening car doors. Just because I've needed one for personal use..

I don't see lockpicking as a necessarily BAD skill to have, it could come in handy when the zombies come... But it can damage door locks permanently even when its done correctly. It'll bend up the key slides inside, and they won't unlock right anymore..

I don't know if my preceptor would be too keen on me wrecking anymore things then I already wreck.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Blood pressure cuffs work fantastic as the inflatable bulbs for breaking into cars.

Infants locked in cars is a common emergency around here for some reason. Yes, I said emergency, in the summer when it's 103 out its an easy 30+ degrees warmer inside the vehicle.

Like Chaz said I'd just call a locksmith but I also agree that a broken window isn't the end of the world either.

 

[Rialaigh]

There are a variety of tools that fire departments (all in this area) carry that are door frame spreaders, when applied correctly with proper training you can spread the frame enough to get past a standard locked door without damaging the frame. This does not work on doors with long dead bolts but doors with just a standard lock are very easy to get through in minimal time without damaging the door. I would check with your area fire department, it is really nothing more than a hydraulic ram configured for a door frame.

 

[TechMedic]

There's no way it's faster than the destructive methods. If the situation is so non-urgent that you're considering using a lockpick, just call a locksmith instead of Fire/EMS. In your call yesterday, I suppose it was a mix of need to get to her and time to wait. If she weren't able to crawl to unlock the door, a single broken window wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.

Compared to breaking a window maybe but that should only be last resort. If you're good you Can open locks pretty quick.

There's not many calls that would require it, but like the one I had, We didn't want her moving around and it seemed over kill to force entry.

Generally the law is that lock pick tools are only illegal if it Can be proven that the owner has intent to commit a crime with them so technically it's legal to use them for our purposes but might cause concern for higher ups I bet.

If an emt chose to carry a set with him and knew how to use them, would it be such a bad thing?

 

[Trailrider]

Sounds like a job for the fire boys. I guess if there's a lock somewhere, there's likely a window in which a trusty window punch/ seatbelt cutter would be handy. As far as I know , EMS providers here do not engage in such activities.

 

[DesertMedic66]

We normally try to get the window out of the frame so that it doesn't break. We generally try this on one of the smaller windows so that if it does break it's hopefully not that expensive to replace.

I am the lucky person who is always sent through the window because I am normally the smallest person on scene.

However, I have looked at lock picking in depth online and have considered buying the tools and practicing a lot with either picks/torque wrenches or the bump keys.

 

[Trailrider]

We normally try to get the window out of the frame so that it doesn't break. We generally try this on one of the smaller windows so that if it does break it's hopefully not that expensive to replace.

I am the lucky person who is always sent through the window because I am normally the smallest person on scene.

However, I have looked at lock picking in depth online and have considered buying the tools and practicing a lot with either picks/torque wrenches or the bump keys.

I believe most Canadian provinces require you to be licensed or be in the trade of lock smithing. I've always had an interest on expanding my knowledge on gaining access or maybe in the near future taking my NFPA 1001s.

 

[troymclure]

you can have your department order a lock gun if you need one. its pretty simple to use, and causes minimal damage to the lock.

 

[Jim37F]

Blood pressure cuffs work fantastic as the inflatable bulbs for breaking into cars.

Infants locked in cars is a common emergency around here for some reason. Yes, I said emergency, in the summer when it's 103 out its an easy 30+ degrees warmer inside the vehicle.

Like Chaz said I'd just call a locksmith but I also agree that a broken window isn't the end of the world either.

My very first call as an EMT ride along was for an infant trapped in a locked car (keys were locked in). The fire dept was just about to break the window when the family ran up with the spare key, the FFs were so disappointed they didn't get to break something lol

 

[DesertMedic66]

My very first call as an EMT ride along was for an infant trapped in a locked car (keys were locked in). The fire dept was just about to break the window when the family ran up with the spare key, the FFs were so disappointed they didn't get to break something lol

My last child locked in a car call (temps get easily into the 120s in my area so we tend to break windows) PD arrived on scene before us and was attempting to break the window with his baton. We get on scene and he is still hitting the window with all his muscle power. I hand him my knife with a window punch and a single light tap in the corner of the window was all it took.

 

[JPINFV]

My last child locked in a car call (temps get easily into the 120s in my area so we tend to break windows) PD arrived on scene before us and was attempting to break the window with his baton. We get on scene and he is still hitting the window with all his muscle power. I hand him my knife with a window punch and a single light tap in the corner of the window was all it took.

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to walk up to the officer and ask if you can take a shot while trying to keep the window punch hidden. That way it looks like he can't break it despite trying as hard as he can while you can break it with a tap.

 

[DesertMedic66]

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to walk up to the officer and ask if you can take a shot while trying to keep the window punch hidden. That way it looks like he can't break it despite trying as hard as he can while you can break it with a tap.

But that officer is really friendly haha.

 

[Trailrider]

 

[exodus]

My last child locked in a car call (temps get easily into the 120s in my area so we tend to break windows) PD arrived on scene before us and was attempting to break the window with his baton. We get on scene and he is still hitting the window with all his muscle power. I hand him my knife with a window punch and a single light tap in the corner of the window was all it took.

Last time that happened to me, the officer broke his wooden baton!

 

[DesertMedic66]

Last time that happened to me, the officer broke his wooden baton!

Replace window with a violent suspect's torso and i've had that happen :unsure:

 

[Handsome Robb]

I am the lucky person who is always sent through the window because I am normally the smallest person on scene.

You and me both. My partner is usually smaller than me but I don't like sending a small female into a house alone with no possibility of backup until they get to the door and unlock it.

As far as how we got about locked cars it really depends on the temp, length of entrapment, potential availability of a spare key. The FD will usually give it a good college effort with the Slim Jim and wedges before we jump to breaking stuff but I've been on a few with 100+ temps and somewhat long entrapment a that the FF walked right up to the car from the engine and blasted the window.

 

[Household6]

I believe most Canadian provinces require you to be licensed or be in the trade of lock smithing. I've always had an interest on expanding my knowledge on gaining access or maybe in the near future taking my NFPA 1001s.

Slim Jims and lock-picking equipment are illegal in couple States.. I know for sure Nevada is one. They're considered prima facie, basically an open and shut case..

 

[J B]

I used to do lockpicking as a hobby. It's not as easy as it looks in the movies. However it can also be done really easily sometimes - depends on the lock. I can pop open most Masterlocks very easily. I can open most house deadbolt locks, but they might take me a few hours to figure out... Each lock is like a puzzle. The better you are, the easier you can figure out the puzzle.

It would be impractical to try to teach on a wide scale, and say "lockpicking is a fire/ems skill". You can learn to pop open padlocks pretty easily, but to actually become good enough to open "real" locks quickly (modern exterior home door locks) takes tons and tons of practice. And just forget about picking car doors. Very very difficult and easy to damage things - even professional locksmiths often won't do it except for fun as a challenge (there are better ways to get into a car).

Tons of practice to learn a skill that can be done faster by a snap gun most of the time. Picking a lock correctly should not damage it. Snap gun has higher chance of damage, but meh...

If it's legal for you to do in your state and your employer is cool with it, I could see it being a useful skill to have on rare occasion. I would be really worried about randomly getting sued, though, personally. It's outside our scope of practice, meh.


It's a fun hobby if you get into it, but I don't think it really has much of a place in EMS/fire due to 1) legal issues and 2) how difficult the skill is to learn compared to how useful it is (and you would need to be really good for it to be of much use in the field).