Is a compact, pocket sized AED possible ?

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emt seeking first job

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I am not an engineer. So I will make a guess. If anyone knows anything about this please chime in.

I am guessing the implanted ones can be small since they do not need to penetrate the skin.

Is there a limit to how small AED's can be made, since they have to have enough power to get through the skin?
 
Didn't you already ask this question in the other thread you started?..
 
yes, but it was not answered and that thread got hi-jacked and way off topic and turned into a stalking thread....

no intention to offend anyone
 
I would much rather lug aroung a classic Lifepak 10 with big black paddles :D

Oh those were the days, you there, get me some lignocaine stat!
 
emt seeking first job said:
yes, but it was not answered and that thread got hi-jacked and way off topic and turned into a stalking thread....

no intention to offend anyone
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This forum is different from every other forum I go to. What does this mean?

Just wondering, and I hate to hijack.


To answer your question, no I don't think that a compact AED is possible given current battery technology. But I do expect them to get smaller again by half of the current models. Remember the first ones? We had a Lifepak 5...18 pounds with a cassette recorder in it to provide "real feedback." What a doorstop that was!
 
I don't think the size of the batteries is really the limiting factor here. In a monitor like the lifepak series, the batteries primarily serve to run the monitor functions. In stationary AEDs, the batteries are rated to provide 100s of shocks before they need recharging/replacing. The batteries just have to be able to supply enough current to charge the capacitors, and it doesn't take a large battery to do that. If your goal was a system that could fit in your pocket and would allow you to provide a few shocks while waiting for someone with a fullsize monitor to get on scene, that would likely be possible. Your other limitation would be from having to integrate some sort of a display into this system so you could read the rhythm, unless you wanted to make it a full aed.
 
emt seeking first job said:
Is there a limit to how small AED's can be made, since they have to have enough power to get through the skin?
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In 1970, the first ones to leave the hospitals were 40 lbs. What are they now, about 4 lbs.? That's a ninety percent reduction in 40 years. I predict they will evolve into the size of a ring. You come to a patient, rip the shirt off, place your hand, palm down just to their left of their sternum, barbs extend, the shock is delivered, you raise your hand and exclaim, "RISE! You're healed!" and they do.
 
you raise your hand and exclaim, "RISE! You're healed!" and they do.
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What? You mean you don't do that now? :P
 
Sasha said:
What? You mean you don't do that now? :P
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I do, but I tell ya, Sasha, I'd do it a lot more often except the paperwork for reimbursement is ridiculous!
 
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The two limitations currently are battery and capacitor size. AICDs need smaller both because they use much less current to defibrillate. Batteries are getting smaller and more powerful, but capacitors are probably still the same size. The analysis circuitry is also much smaller, as are the displays. A very large scale IC and a few other components can do what it used to take a lot of discreet components to do, so the circuitry is much smaller. An LCD screen is certainly much more compact than a CRT as was used in early monitors.

Also, the requirements for a personal use AED are different than what a used more frequently EMS AED needs.
 
Anything is possible

When they used to use those big a** defibulater in the hospitals they never thought it was possible to make them smaller or in fact to even use them in the field. Can you imagine being around for that change. Soon enough everything will fit in our pockets and the only thing you will need an ambulance for is transport
 
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In 1970, one heart attack, two medics, one monitor/defibrillator (40 lbs.), one Motorola "Orange Box" (20 lbs.), Tackle box/drug kit (say 20 lbs.), "Airway box" including "D" cylinder O2 (say 20 lbs.). That's a nice even number of 100 lbs. up the stairs, through the corridors and on to Gramma's house we go!

The amazing thing was, and this is no joke, we were so THRILLED back then to have all these tools to work with, we literally brought the whole ER to the patient in any medical emergency!
 
589661 said:
When they used to use those big a** defibulater in the hospitals they never thought it was possible to make them smaller or in fact to even use them in the field. Can you imagine being around for that change. Soon enough everything will fit in our pockets and the only thing you will need an ambulance for is transport
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The advances in size are due to the advances in miniaturization of the circuitry used in the devices, better battery technology, and flat screen monitor technology to replace CRTs. I don't know that capacitor technology has improved that much as far as the actual defib circuit goes, but the large capacitors that used to be needed to power the CRT tubes aren't needed any longer. Add to that the use of plastic for the cases to replace the aluminum or steel that used to be used and you have the explanation for most of the size and weight savings.

And since I was around for most of the changes you talk about, I don't have to imagine what it was like. ^_^
 
I wish i understood the electric circutry better than i do, i know the basics and can put together simple boards like an amplifier and things from a book we used in computer certification class but im more the software kinda guy, and a lot of hardware too as long as no mods are needed, i mean i can change a blown cap or two but thats about it
 
It all depends on the size of the pocket. Any AED could be pocket sized.
 
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