I don't want to work with someone who has no interest in medicine/health

[EMS49393]

Quite honestly, I happen to love medicine which is why I am looking to leave EMS to be a PA. I, too, am fed up with not having anyone I can talk medicine with as well. My husband is a paramedic and I can't even talk medicine with him. It has nothing to do with pay, it has to do with stimulation. I need to be busy and constantly learning. I read more then my family and friends combined, between textbooks, books on history, and medical journals, I spend more then five hours a day with my face buried in paper.

I was just contemplating how bored I have become tonight while I was attempted to cure my wicked insomnia with an article on sudden cardic death in children in the Annals of Pediatric Cardiology. Seriously, I'll talk medicine anytime, especially with doctors that like to teach.

As for EMS, I do not forsee a change until providers quit treating like the lazy mans way to excitement, or a fire job. Whichever comes first.

Pardon typos, sent from my blackberry.

 

[HotelCo]

I must be lucky. The majority of the people I work with have a genuine interest in medicine.

 

[Veneficus]

but ultimately doing EMS means exposing yourself to a certain type of horror, like the occasional pediatric cardiac arrest. Some people realise they've had enough of this.

Being rather old school, I have only ever seen a few providers have problems with this. The ones that did washed out. The older providers successfully cope and they are of exceptional character. Maybe too many people who have no business even starting in emergency services is the problem?

(3) Back injuries are rampant. A medic / EMT who can't lift is going to have a very hard time finding work. This is partly because we (like the general population) don't take care of ourselves. It's also because we do a lot of awkward lifts.

Again, this is something that is part of the demands. If you can't lift, then you can't do the work. We don't expect people who can't pass a pt test to be soldiers. Why would we expect anything less from the "heros" who are supposed to be above the average who we pay to come and help?

I have had my fair share of awkward lifts, but if it is routine, then something is very wrong. In most instances where a patient is in an inaccessable place, deciding in your mind it is now a rescue and calling the appropriate resources is the proper course of action for all involved.

You have the responsibility to protect your health and safety. If your company doesn't support that, the reasonable choice is to move on, even if it is to another field of work. I give you my loyal assurance nobody at your company is going to pay for your current standard of living if you get hurt.

(4) Shift work, and emergency services, wreak havoc on family life. It's hard to understand why your spouse is so moody on a Friday, if you haven't worked a monday-friday schedule in 10 years. It's hard to keep track of time passing when you have an abrupt reset at the end of the last night shift of each tour. You see things that you often can't share with your spouse, either because it will upset them, or because they won't be able to understand. There's plenty of upset, stressed out people in EMS, and marriage-ending infidelity is extremely prevalent.

MY normal life has always been fire and EMS, everyone I met socially understood that. Some could cope, some couldn't and are no longer in my life. Being able to understand and be sympathetic to the struggles of your spouse no matter what they do is a key skill in a relationship.

I share only the funny stories with my spouse. The rest upsets her. BUt I have both respectable coping mechanisms and a great peer support group.

I keep hearing about the marriage ending infidelity being rampant, but I don't see it anymore than in any other population. Perhaps you just hear about it more in the EMS population?

(My experience was very much that people left at the beginning, in the first five years, as they realised how poor the working conditions were for EMTs in all but the marquee, unionised services, that were primarily looking for paramedics, or 1001 Firefighter-EMTs.

Some of the best services I have ever worked at were non union. One of the worst was union. A good service is not synonomous with a union. I also suspect with the trend of unionbusting in the US and the popular support behind it, it will be free market factors that decide pay and working conditions in the future.

Basic economics of supply and demand. YOU have 1000 minimally trained techs applying for 100 labor positions and pay is going to be dirt. If people quit working for dirt, and find other fields of work instead of going to poor employers, those shops will close down and something better will come along.

(When you train enough people to EMT level each year to fill every available 911 spot in the region -- it's natural that a lot of those people won't find work.

Yes, and in the last few years it was even worse because every unemployed person saw that it took only a month or so to become an EMT and flooded the market thinking that was a fast way to an "exciting, high paying, stable, healthcare" field as advertized all over. Many of them of them are now trickling up to medic and you'll see the same as it is easier to get into medic mills than it is to get accepted into a nursing program and the investment in time, effort, and money is definitively less.

It seemed like there were a lot of younger people who moved on with a couple of years of their medic -- as they realised that being a paramedic doesn't suddenly change the nature of the job. You have more responsibility, more interventions, more change to do good and to do harm. But the same social problems and system problems exist at every level.

Social problems and considerations are part of medicine worldwide for centuries. System problems are part of all US medicine. If they can't take the job, they are free to go, don't let the door hit them on the *** on the way out.

A lot of the female EMTs/medics would leave after having kids. Trying to find daycare for an EMS worker's kids is hard. You never know when you're coming home. The shift might end at 1700. But you might not walk in the door until 2000. Your 14 hour night shift, might just become 18 hours with some bad luck.

Ahhh. The tribulations of reducing the energy of reproduction and maintaining a lifestyle higher than the rest of the world. Sounds like people want it all. Best of luck with that.

and the wrath of the SSM gods.

Anyone still using SSM is either absolutely stupid, greedy, or both. Best of luck to them too. Don't be a fool, McDonalds has better working conditions and in management similar pay.

I wasn't always sure whether the hospital did. I was never quite certain that the community really valued what I did.

Because they don't.

I disagree, by the way, that if one wants to talk about medicine, one should go to medical school. I would agree that if you want to be a medical expert, this, or selected clinically-focused lines of research, are the two pathways.

LOL, This is great. I am sorry, but I never hear a patient ask for a clinical researcher. They ask for a doctor. I also hear what physicians who actually touch patients say about those who don't but offer suggestions with studies that seem absolutely laughable.

But I don't believe it's wrong for a paramedic to want to talk medicine.

In every country but the US they can. See the problem? A bunch of laborers wanting to be treated like clinicians because they are some of the lowest educated people permitted to touch a patient. A US paramedic can't even step on a truck in any other civilized country and touch a patient.

We treat disease in the community in situations where it's not possible/desirable/cost-effective to have a physician present.

Possible or cost effective I agree with. Desirable is another matter entirely.

We move people between the site of their injury/disease process and the hospital, or between two different facilities. That's ok. That's a unique competency within medicine..

It is not medicine at all. It is the freight industry. Not only run like it, but paid like it as well.

One of the better parts of being in EMS, for me, was feeling that I was helping build something better. I admit, I didn't feel like this every day. But on the good days, I felt like I was a very small part, of creating something very important.

Certainly wasn't the respect or the money. But it is good you didn't come away completely empty handed.

 

[Melclin]

I feel for you mate.

Sounds like it sucks to be you at the moment. Come and work over here! Its not all Brown and I crack it up to be, but its still pretty swell.

Even amongst St John Ambulance First Aid Volunteers, I couldn't count on both hands, the number of first aiders and first responders I've met who are keen to learn and talk medicine. Amongst the state ambulance service, there are many people who don't just talk, but in fact, do (research). Even in St John Ambulance there are pathways for vollies who wanna get involved in EMS and public health research!

I think people need to see that educating paramedics actually makes a difference. Paramedic led research that changes clinical practice is slowly but surely becoming a reality here. Gavin Smith's research into valsalver maneuvers. To share a laugh with him, you'd never suspect he was a doctoral candidate. Dr Mal Boyle's (that's not a MD, thats a PhD in EMS) work with the Victorian trauma registry to refine our MOI criteria for trauma triage. I read recently in a newletter type publication from the Ambulance service that a MICA paramedic has recently completed a study correlating higher MAP and cardiac arrest survival, exclusively in the prehospital environment. As students at uni, we're encouraged to look up to people like that.

At uni, I was lucky enough to get the chance to complete a sort of research internship in which I worked for a true leader in the field, Prof Frank Archer, and had the opportunity to correspond with Disaster Medicine experts from universities all over the world as well as from the WHO. They were some of the most educational and enjoyable few weeks of my degree. How many opportunities like this are afforded to students at American paramedic schools? How many students would want to do something like that?

When it comes to putting value on education and taking an interest in the field, it really helps if you've been taught by inspiring people like we this. I was chatting with Dr Lee Boyd (a wonderful educator but harsh marker mentioned in the article bellow and who I credit with a large proportion of my success at uni) about the requirements for coming back and teaching one day. I was told that I'd have to attain a post-graduate certificate in higher education as a minimum, preferably a higher. This was in addition to either a masters in public health with an EMS focus or a masters/PhD in EMS. Believe it or not, there are a relatively large number of applicants and its apparently quite hard to get a job there. I think its people and educational requirements like this that really foster attitudinal change amongst future paramedics. While America still has drill instructor type "educators" presenting dot point presentations to wrote learn during the months of a tech school style qualification, I'm afraid you're going to remain SOL for someone to chat with mate.


Here's a piece of my uni's propaganda on the topic if you're interested. http://www.monash.edu.au/campuses/peninsula/news/peninsula_online/issue02-10.html

 

[TransportJockey]

Unfortunately I get to go to class twice a week with a room full of people that are only there because they're required to upgrade to Paramedic to keep their job. I'm the only one that is not of that group in that class, and apparently the only one who like to discuss medicine and WHY we are doing something. I get groans and nasty comments every time I open my mouth to ask for a clarification, just because I'm not happy with just knowing the Do B for A and don't ask questions mentality.
So I've seen this quite a bit. I hate this area because no one likes to talk medicine, and one of the most often used phrases I hear when asking the chief about possible new treatments is 'We're not doctors. We don't research stuff. Leave that for the medical director if he feels its a good time to give us more toys to play with." Usually followed by "but we don't need anything new, and I really dont want to go to class for more stuff on top of my CEs".

Skipping medic and just getting my damned RN is looking better and better.

 

[CAOX3]

I know many medical providers, most of which don't eat, drink and sleep their chosen profession, Their some of the best out there. We discuss medicine at work amongst other things. Just because it doesn't envelop us doesn't mean we don't enjoy it or are not passionate about it, its because we have other interests. I am a person that works in ems, I'm not defined by it. I think its also a disservice to look down upon anyone for making a personal decision about a profession they choose. You want to use EMS as a stepping stone go ahead, all I ask is you give a hundred percent while your here, leave it a little better then you found it.

As far as increasing educational standards I'm all for it, I have an education but I'm not opposed to more. I also don't saddle myself with the burden of changing something no one seems interested in changing. Change them tommorrow, make a bs a pre-req, then emt or medic curriculum to follow.

 

[systemet]

Being rather old school, I have only ever seen a few providers have problems with this. The ones that did washed out. The older providers successfully cope and they are of exceptional character. Maybe too many people who have no business even starting in emergency services is the problem?

Perhaps. I think we probably would agree that too many people enter EMS due to a low educational barrier to entry.

I think sometimes though we also just select out people who are different, we sometimes fail to support each other, and many systems lack good mechanisms to help their employees deal with stressful events.

I also saw older employees underrepresented in EMS. I remember conversations with people who had 20 years in, who were having trouble coping with a call from 6 months prior. It didn't seem their age, maturity, generational differences or prior experience had spared them from critical stress.

Again, this is something that is part of the demands. If you can't lift, then you can't do the work. We don't expect people who can't pass a pt test to be soldiers. Why would we expect anything less from the "heros" who are supposed to be above the average who we pay to come and help?

Agreed. There's a responsibility to keep yourself physically fit, that many EMS providers neglect to their own detriment. There's also a certain risk to each lift you do. Sometimes you're unlucky. If there are no lateral positions to move someone with an injured back into, you lose them, and all their experience and training, to another field. I think that this is a problem for EMS.

You have the responsibility to protect your health and safety. If your company doesn't support that, the reasonable choice is to move on, even if it is to another field of work. I give you my loyal assurance nobody at your company is going to pay for your current standard of living if you get hurt.

Agreed. But wouldn't it be better if there were more positions within EMS for people who can't lift?

I keep hearing about the marriage ending infidelity being rampant, but I don't see it anymore than in any other population. Perhaps you just hear about it more in the EMS population?

You may be right. This may be some random idea I've picked up, and reinforced with confirmation bias. It seemed to me that this was the case, but I have absolutely no data/evidence to support that.

A good service is not synonomous with a union.

Agreed. However, in the region I worked in the unionised services were generally preferable to work in. Obviously there were exceptions to this, and I'm not foolish enough to suggest that this can be generalised to another country, especially one with as fragmented and diverse an EMS "system" as the US.

Social problems and considerations are part of medicine worldwide for centuries. System problems are part of all US medicine. If they can't take the job, they are free to go, don't let the door hit them on the *** on the way out.

Absolutely. You can vote with your feet. And part of surviving in medicine is learning to focus on problems you have the power to change, and not ones that you can't.

But surely we'd agree that there's also room for improvement in how today's EMS systems are run?

Ahhh. The tribulations of reducing the energy of reproduction and maintaining a lifestyle higher than the rest of the world. Sounds like people want it all. Best of luck with that.

Also understood and agreed. At the risk of making a huge tangent, I think this is sometimes a cultural bias. If you've never experienced how people live in other countries, it may seem normal to own a pickup, a minivan, and a 2000 square foot house. Then you may end up trapping yourself with all the associated consumer debt.

Anyone still using SSM is either absolutely stupid, greedy, or both. Best of luck to them too. Don't be a fool, McDonalds has better working conditions and in management similar pay.

SSM / MPDS are good liability management but poor medicine, in my opinion. I don't like it much. It was still probably better than McDonalds though

LOL, This is great. I am sorry, but I never hear a patient ask for a clinical researcher. They ask for a doctor. I also hear what physicians who actually touch patients say about those who don't but offer suggestions with studies that seem absolutely laughable.

I never suggested that PhD clinical researchers were even remotely qualified to do clinical care. That's not their role. But there's no denying the value of medical research carried out by PhDs, MDs, and MD/PhDs (both those who work 100% in research and those who primarily do patient care).

Perhaps we're arguing over definitions -- but would you consider someone who studies the effects of TNF-alpha on vascular reactivity in sepsis in a rat model to have some background in medicine? What about someone who looks at IPSCs in myocardial infarction models, or in human clinical trials? Is this not also medicine? What about someone who studies the actions of NMBAs, and lectures pharamcology/physiology to medical students?

I could imagine a specialist physician getting very upset if a clinical researcher tried to direct care. That would just be stupid. But whenever I've seen the two groups interact, I've seen nothing but mutual respect and polite discourse.

Possible or cost effective I agree with. Desirable is another matter entirely.

I guess what I meant by that was that if you put physicians on every ambulance, there'd be a huge issue of skill degradation to manage. I think it might be very frustrating to the individual physicians as well.

Certainly wasn't the respect or the money. But it is good you didn't come away completely empty handed.

I greatly enjoyed it, and expect to enjoy it again. All I was trying to do was highlight what I think some of the reasons people leave EMS are.

Some of these issues have constructive solutions, or at least there exist creative ideas that can be tried. Stress could be alleviated by moving away from SSM models, altering sick leave policies, providing more opportunities for lateral movement, better educational opportunities post-employment, developing a team culture, etc. Some not so much.

All the best.

 

[Veneficus]

Perhaps. I think we probably would agree that too many people enter EMS due to a low educational barrier to entry.

I think sometimes though we also just select out people who are different, we sometimes fail to support each other, and many systems lack good mechanisms to help their employees deal with stressful events.

I think that you are absolutely right about these points.

I also saw older employees underrepresented in EMS. I remember conversations with people who had 20 years in, who were having trouble coping with a call from 6 months prior. It didn't seem their age, maturity, generational differences or prior experience had spared them from critical stress.

No doubt that anyone can be affected by critical stress for a number of reasons, but I have always been involved in organizations that while they may not have always had formal channels to deal with this stress, the informal support was quite exceptional. Of course as firetender has pointed out both in his book and on numerous occasions on the board, people often need to actively seek support and I think in some cases, the old school people like me are likely to try to tough it out. I have found however nothing gets a person over the last call like the next one.

But wouldn't it be better if there were more positions within EMS for people who can't lift?

I think that the lack of lateral position as well as support roles in EMS is directly tied to the lack of education. Even here and now, the same narrowminded people defend the EMS of yesterday which actively eliminates these roles.

As an example, if EMS actually embraced community education and non emergent out of hospital preventative medicine, many positions would be available for both lighter duty as well as lateral transfer in order to get a break.

Certainly reimbursement would have to change, but without a valuable educational background first, there is nothing to make a case for reimbursement with.

But surely we'd agree that there's also room for improvement in how today's EMS systems are run?

I think we have many points of agreement, far more than disagreement actually.

SSM / MPDS are good liability management but poor medicine, in my opinion. I don't like it much. It was still probably better than McDonalds though

I must disagree with this. while SSM may seem like it can provider the best coverage to the greatest amount of people, it has critical shortfalls that I think mitigate any benefit.

First off you cannot predict where an emergency will occur next with any level of accuracy. I think Dr. Bledsoe has written extensively on this.

Another problem is the fatigue degrades the effectiveness of the crews substantially. Which not only means consumers (used that word on purpose) potentially get lesser care than what they pay for, the risk of loss from both the operational standpoint and medical standpoint is also something that needs to accounted for. A department may get away with less overhead in the short term, but all it will take is one accident where there are multiple disabled/dead employees, patients, or bystanders where any savings is lost.

I'll bet we couldn't even list all of the industries that have figured out that prevention saves more in the long term.

Illstrated as a quote from Erwin Rommel: "A risk is a chance you take; if it fails you can recover. A gamble is a chance taken; if it fails, recovery is impossible."

I never suggested that PhD clinical researchers were even remotely qualified to do clinical care. That's not their role. But there's no denying the value of medical research carried out by PhDs, MDs, and MD/PhDs (both those who work 100% in research and those who primarily do patient care).

We agree on this as well. But the problem I was trying to illustrate is that there are many nonphysician providers who are doing clinical care research which is highly flawed in order to create practice standards. I have observed most nursing studies are especially guilty of this.

Perhaps we're arguing over definitions -- but would you consider someone who studies the effects of TNF-alpha on vascular reactivity in sepsis in a rat model to have some background in medicine? What about someone who looks at IPSCs in myocardial infarction models, or in human clinical trials? Is this not also medicine? What about someone who studies the actions of NMBAs, and lectures pharamcology/physiology to medical students?

I would consider them to have a substantial backgrond in medicine. I would agree that these are applicable and valuable roles for these professionals. I do not agree that they should be largely involved in clinical studies.

I could imagine a specialist physician getting very upset if a clinical researcher tried to direct care. That would just be stupid. But whenever I've seen the two groups interact, I've seen nothing but mutual respect and polite discourse.

That is exactly the problem I was referring to. It is becomming more popular it seems. I have also witnessed the mutal respect and discourse as long as the conversation is scientific. Once it turns into practice guidlines, it maybe polite face to face, but certainly not otherwise.

I guess what I meant by that was that if you put physicians on every ambulance, there'd be a huge issue of skill degradation to manage. I think it might be very frustrating to the individual physicians as well.

Being involved with systems that do have physicians on the ambulance, I offer it is just the opposite. These physicians do not primarily operate as EMS providers. They operate primarily in their speciality. They perform EMS as a collateral duty, and become very skilled at it as well. It has the benefit of giving them the perspective of both the emergent setting as well as the nonacute setting and allows them to be functional in disaster environments as well.

Some of these issues have constructive solutions, or at least there exist creative ideas that can be tried. Stress could be alleviated by moving away from SSM models, altering sick leave policies, providing more opportunities for lateral movement, better educational opportunities post-employment, developing a team culture, etc. Some not so much.

All of which will require an upfront investment in education from EMS providers which a large majority of which are unwilling to undertake or give assent to.

They choose their own doom.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

The solution is simple.

If you want to talk about medicine, quit fooling around and go to medical school.

Working on it!

Can I get a letter of rec? ;-)

 

[Veneficus]

I know many medical providers, most of which don't eat, drink and sleep their chosen profession, Their some of the best out there. We discuss medicine at work amongst other things. Just because it doesn't envelop us doesn't mean we don't enjoy it or are not passionate about it, its because we have other interests..

I have other interests than medicine. But I find that the warning we received before starting medical school from our dean is absolutely true. It permiates to every aspect of our lives. My family is triaged every morning at breakfast, and every evening at dinner. Not a day goes by somebody is not asking my opinion on medical issues.

I especially like getting calls after I get out of the hospital for the day from the hospital, "sorry to bug you but..."

Then I try to come here and relax.

 

[Veneficus]

Working on it!

Can I get a letter of rec? ;-)

sure, just let me know where to send it.

 

[Aerin-Sol]

EMS is an entry-level job. A lot of people try it out, realize they don't want a medical career, and keep working while trying to move to other fields... or they work EMS while trying to get a fire job.

 

[volparamedic]

Unfortunately EMS is used as a stepping stone for a lot of people. The average life span of EMS is 5 years...heck it may be less by now. The new bridge course to RN being offered to paramedics is a big hit in my hometown. Then there are those who get into it for the lights and sirens. They really don't care about people and taking care of them. Even though it may not be an true emergency to us it usually is to them. We see people at their worst time of their life. That will leave a lasting impact....it's up to you whether it's good or a bad one.

As far as following protocols......those are guidelines. You can do anything in your scope of practice....as long as you ask permission first!! Medical Control!

 

[Veneficus]

in an abstract way...

It is sort of like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6sARmxEuc

Sorry, I do not have JPs skill at embedding.

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

A long time ago I learned something that has stuck with me my entire life and something that I have said many a time on this site: The one thing that no one can take away is education. Ergo, I want to get as much knowledge as I can. I'm looking to get a B.S. in Emergency Management, and then my Master's and possibly even a Ph.D. Does this mean that I want to use EMS as a stepping stone? No, it just means that eventually I am going to have to go to Australia to get a B.S. in Paramedicine. Personally, I have learned much from this site and those who post here, but I could not even approach the level of conversation that some of our members can, but I am learning and trying my best. The difference between someone who is just a skill monkey and someone who will last in this field is the desire for education. My instructor years ago told my class that it comes down to LOL: Learn Or Leave.

 

[emt seeking first job]

IMHO, it is not about us, stimulating out interests or asperations. EMS is all about the patient. We are public safety. A lot of what EMS does overlaps with Fire and Law Enforcement. Thats is why there are Fire Fighter/paramedics and LEO/ Paramedics. Health care is an indoor activity.

Our converations should be about the most ridiculous crap while we wait to be dispatched.

We get to people who need to go the hospital. We get to them, we perform interventions to sustain their life and get them to the hospital.

Then we get something to eat.

In NYC at least, there are always CME's and seminars, free and paid, to indulge anyone's interest for professional improvement.

And ther eis nothing wrong with working one job while aspiring to something else so long as you do what needs to be done while you have whaever job you have.

 

[reaper]

IMHO, it is not about us, stimulating out interests or asperations. EMS is all about the patient. We are public safety. A lot of what EMS does overlaps with Fire and Law Enforcement. Thats is why there are Fire Fighter/paramedics and LEO/ Paramedics. Health care is an indoor activity.

Our converations should be about the most ridiculous crap while we wait to be dispatched.

We get to people who need to go the hospital. We get to them, we perform interventions to sustain their life and get them to the hospital.

Then we get something to eat.

In NYC at least, there are always CME's and seminars, free and paid, to indulge anyone's interest for professional improvement.

And ther eis nothing wrong with working one job while aspiring to something else so long as you do what needs to be done while you have whaever job you have.

This way of thinking is what will keep you at the bottom of the barrel. EMS is not public safety, never has been. EMS does not overlap with Fire or LEO, They overlap into us. Mostly to save their jobs. EMS overlaps into the hospitals. Health care is not only indoors.

 

[emt seeking first job]

But why is fire or LE lower than health care.

One thing as public safety professionals is we have to deal with people as find them.

People in Hospitals can call security or refuse to treat someone uncooperative.

We have to deal with EVERYONE and have to let a lot roll off our shoulders.

we endeavor to control the scene regardless of how crazy it gets.

That is a skill more precious than any medical ability.

LE/Fire/EMS are inextricably linked. We go in to places where the common person has the right to avoid. We can't be the bystander.

IMHO, if the medicine itself feeds you and you want to go farther with that, then, by all means, get a position in the hospital. The sky is the limit in research and treatment.

EMS is all about getting the patient to the hospital. We sign them off and go to the next job.

 

[Veneficus]

IMHO, it is not about us, stimulating out interests or asperations. EMS is all about the patient.

If you say so...

But if it is all abot the patient, why are there so many providers who haven't the slightest clue how to care for one so they just follow their cookbook and traditions?

When you actually commit to medicine, your aspiritions become beneficial to the patient.

We are public safety.

"The poor creatures, they don't know any better."

I hate to kill the illusion, but EMS isn't public safety. Both fire/law enforcement have significant preventative aspects to them. They are funded largely by the government as a required service in society.

In some places in the US there is no requirement to provide EMS. It is left to volunteers, private corperations, and all manner of of half breed organizations..

A lot of what EMS does overlaps with Fire and Law Enforcement.

Like what other than driving around with lights and sirens?

Thats is why there are Fire Fighter/paramedics and LEO/ Paramedics.

I cannot even imagine where you heard that from. The main reason the fire service is even involved in EMS is to be able to receive healthcare funds. If you took those funds away the fire service would drop EMS like a stone.

The handful of LE agencies that provide primary EMS is an additional service to their payers, not part of it. There are benefits to diversifying. Not to mention with a CPR card and an AED, a police officer is probably just as useful as 75% of all basic EMTs practicing today.

Health care is an indoor activity.

Complete and utter BS. All around the world there are physicians on ambulances and operating in some of the most extreme environments from field clinics that are no more than tents to disaster areas. The IRC actually has full time medical employees who operate in these environments. 1 healthcare provider in a place like Indonesia treating collera in a villiage will save more lives than all the EMTs in the US will ever.

The best healthcare is preventative, and that is done at home everyday.

Our converations should be about the most ridiculous crap while we wait to be dispatched.

I am sorry you think so.

"What is your profession?"

We get to people who need to go the hospital.

So does a taxi. So does a private vehicle. So does a bus. Some people actually walk. What do we need to fund you for?

We get to them, we perform interventions to sustain their life and get them to the hospital.

less than 10% and as little as 5% of everything EMS does.

Feel like a hero now?

In NYC at least, there are always CME's and seminars, free and paid, to indulge anyone's interest for professional improvement.

Which is added to my list of places to avoid calling EMS for fear of being in the care of a bunch of glorified taxi drivers who get their kicks playing medical professional as something to pass the time and feel better about themselves as if they are contributing something.

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

IMHO, it is not about us, stimulating out interests or aspirations. EMS is all about the patient. We are public safety. A lot of what EMS does overlaps with Fire and Law Enforcement. That is why there are Fire Fighter/paramedics and LEO/ Paramedics. Health care is an indoor activity.

In this paragraph, you state EMS is about the patient. Then you say healthcare is an indoor activity. Now, I thought in order for a person to be your patient, you had to be trying to improve their health, whether it be an acute or chronic problem....

Our conversations should be about the most ridiculous crap while we wait to be dispatched.

Not saying there is anything wrong with humor in our line of work, but why not talk about the field you are in? Why not discuss new therapies that may have a relation and/or application to EMS? Where is the harm in that?

We get to people who need to go the hospital. We get to them, we perform interventions to sustain their life and get them to the hospital.

Venificus and you are both right here, except a good provider is not just going to "provide interventions." They are going to "apply knowledge."

Then we get something to eat.

You got me here....

In NYC at least, there are always CME's and seminars, free and paid, to indulge anyone's interest for professional improvement.

Is that the limit to how you want to improve yourself? Half listening to a lecture because just being there gives you CE hours? Again, in that first paragraph you said EMS was all about the patient, and well, part of being all about the patient is that the provider has taken the time to and is still trying to learn.

And there is nothing wrong with working one job while aspiring to something else so long as you do what needs to be done while you have whatever job you have.

Drumroll please: As long as people think of it as a job, then we will never rise to being a profession in the eyes of the world. EMS is not just another job for many of us, but I can understand your viewpoint if it is for you....


Just a thought.....