Hazard Pay

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Seirende said:
That of course is going to be greatly affected by your individual risk factors. A 68 year old with severe COPD is going to be a bit higher risk than a healthy 26 year old.
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Of course but its much easier to throw out an overall number.
 
GMCmedic said:
Of course but its much easier to throw out an overall number.
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In terms of what we're facing in the workforce I think our numbers are going to be lower.
 
A lot of super high risk people are retired or otherwise out of the public-facing workforce which is good news in terms of their risk of contracting an infection, as long as they don't have someone who has to be out in the public (say an EMS provider) spreading it to them.
 
I'm not scared of getting sick, because I'll probably be fine. I'm scared of spreading the virus and infecting someone who won't be so lucky.
 
Seirende said:
I'm not scared of getting sick, because I'll probably be fine. I'm scared of spreading the virus and infecting someone who won't be so lucky.
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This.
 
E tank said:
Who is reporting COVID-19 patients being on ecmo currently?
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There are centers in the US participating in the ECMOCARD study. We have had a couple presumed COVID-19 patients placed on ECMO in the past couple days.
 
VFlutter said:
There are centers in the US participating in the ECMOCARD study. We have had a couple presumed COVID-19 patients placed on ECMO in the past couple days.
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I'm curious how the data will turn out. We use the 80 80 rule for neos through geriatrics, and I'm not sure how reversible the pathology is actually going to be for the extremely sick ARDS patient.
 
RocketMedic said:
So I know it’s a tender moment with the economy shutting down and everything, but here’s a question: at what point does the hazardous pay discussion need to be had, both for EMS and the healthcare industry?

We’ve got massive shortages of critical equipment.

We’re all working, or soon to be, WAY outside of our levels of familiarity, training and safety.
And we’re doing it in the context of a viral, lethal pandemic that is killing healthcare providers disturbingly frequently.

so, when is this discussion OK?
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This is a multi faceted question. First, I have been a Paramedic for 32 years. I have seen a lot of changes in my time. Some good, which includes a few OSHA regs. HIPPA, don’t get me started, and these computer programs that are set up for bean counters and statisticians, not those of us who work the street in services with heavy run volume trying to clear hospitals, and go home on time. (chuckle)
Now as far as working with shortage of equipment, I am with you there. It is like preparing for a tsunami in Louisville, Ky....where the hell did all that water come from, what do you mean Walmart is out of floaties, pool noodles, paper towels, and toilet paper. Sometimes you just don’t see it coming. But, sometimes you do but it’s a time problem. I am not getting into a political battle so I will leave it at this, someone needs to walk out to the mailbox at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave more often and check the mail. There might be a letter from some Chinese Doc in Whuhan whose last words were,”GET READY THERES TSUNAMI COMING!!!.“
As far as dealing with this virus, our protocol called for apprise PPE when you deal with a possible communicable respiratory diseases. It also required you to wipe down the patient compartment and cot after each run. Now that was pretty much the standard around the nation and Canada. We used the OSHA rules because we were a little lacking in original ideas. The 10,000 dollar question is what prompted, HIV, nope your wrong nice try, measles, nope that was eradicated that week. It wasn’t toe nail fungus, or severe crouch itch. Here is the answer, drum rollll, it was SARS !!!!. In case you did not know was another Corona type virus. ( by the way it is called corona be cause looking at it through the microscope it has the little thingy stuff call proteins that make it look like a crown.) Oh, you don’t care, sorry. So if you have been following rules that were set out by OSHA, you really should be protected, oh yes, don’t forget to was your hands. Just another little piece of useless history, my first 10 years in EMS, the only gloves we had were in the OB, kit and they were, hehe, sterile. So how many of us did not really pay that much attention to all of those dumb rules.,🖐🤚🖐🖐, one of those hands is mine. They don’t seem so dumb now.
On a serious note, I retired a short time ago, I was paying to go to work, compared to my retirement. I would have continued to work because it is my passion, but my finance person said no. I have since also have had a couple of injuries which stops me from going back, should have stayed.
I do know your fear, and it is scary, we went through the same things with AIDS, SARS, Bird flu, H1N1, and two bacterial meningitis out breaks. Then there was Anthrax, and other CBRNE ****. The crews I worked with and myself just put on the PPE and rolled on.
As far as asking for extra money, EMS systems, cities and states struggle to make it everyday. You can ask the government for more and they can give it to you, but, where will that come from us, April the 15th every year.
when you do ask for extra what Is really the intent. You really already should have been trained to deal with highly contagious scenarios. Using the proper PPE, washing your hands, cleaning up afterward is what is the protection required. If you are not given the proper PPE to do your job, then raise hell. Any good Supervisor would not allow to work without it, I have fought battles over PPE for bedbugs. But I don’t really see extra money for this scenario. There are a lot of dangerous **** out there we deal with we don’t get paid for. It’s part of the job. I can see your concern, and I hope I don’t end up with any haters. If your wondering I am still working a First ResponderJob so I am not totally out. I am also 65 years young and have a couple of medical problems. I am trying to find a way not to end this and not sound hateful, because it’s not. If you feel this situation is something that scares you enough you feel you should be paid extra pay, you may want to look at another career. I pray for all of you everyday. Becareful out there.
 
This is the job.
Flu, SARS, SARS2, HIV, Hep, C.Diff, alien invasion, etc etc...

This is the job. It doesn’t get much simpler. Everyone in healthcare is being affected and assumes these risks everyday...
If you don’t want the risk then quit.

(If you can’t get PPE- the scene is not safe... I know that will be your retort- if you don’t want to enter an unsafe scene, don’t and then still quit if forced.)
 
SandpitMedic said:
This is the job.
Flu, SARS, SARS2, HIV, Hep, C.Diff, alien invasion, etc etc...

This is the job. It doesn’t get much simpler. Everyone in healthcare is being affected and assumes these risks everyday...
If you don’t want the risk then quit.

(If you can’t get PPE- the scene is not safe... I know that will be your retort- if you don’t want to enter an unsafe scene, don’t and then still quit if forced.)
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Every job has limits. I dare say, given that I’m an active 911 medic and you are not, that my tolerance for those limits is actually superior to yours. But in the context of a pandemic disease that is as easily spread as Covid-19, with the potential implications for ourselves and our families and the utter failure of healthcare leadership to prepare adequately for this, an unusual hazard exists.
Would you be making this same argument if it was only a 1% chance someone would shoot you on-scene with every call?
 
RocketMedic said:
Every job has limits. I dare say, given that I’m an active 911 medic and you are not, that my tolerance for those limits is actually superior to yours. But in the context of a pandemic disease that is as easily spread as Covid-19, with the potential implications for ourselves and our families and the utter failure of healthcare leadership to prepare adequately for this, an unusual hazard exists.
Would you be making this same argument if it was only a 1% chance someone would shoot you on-scene with every call?
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Didn’t you accuse me of a hero complex in another thread when I said we’d come to work while the other guy stayed home sick?
 
FiremanMike said:
Didn’t you accuse me of a hero complex in another thread when I said we’d come to work while the other guy stayed home sick?
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I did, because your post reeked of it. You basically accused him of being a malingerer.
 
RocketMedic said:
Every job has limits. I dare say, given that I’m an active 911 medic and you are not, that my tolerance for those limits is actually superior to yours. But in the context of a pandemic disease that is as easily spread as Covid-19, with the potential implications for ourselves and our families and the utter failure of healthcare leadership to prepare adequately for this, an unusual hazard exists.
Would you be making this same argument if it was only a 1% chance someone would shoot you on-scene with every call?
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RocketMedic said:
I did, because your post reeked of it.
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Well then I think I’ll just quote both these posts from you as a reminder. Because your post definitely takes it to the next level.
 
I’m wondering what my personal “quit point” is with regards to pay, conditions and risk. Not going to lie, this “reused single use mask” thing and the whole back-talking “we do the best we can” thing Nomadic and a few others have done doesn’t seem terribly safe in the context of, say, Italy. “It’s the job” sort of rings hollow when those same voices say that proper suits and respirators are too expensive to stock.
 
Not EMS specifically, but my municipality just came to an agreement with our union for essential workers. Many nonessential employees were told to stay home, with pay. Essential employees are working either half or full time for their usual rate. Hazard pay or OT would potentially bankrupt us, so they agreed on hour-for-hour comp time for everyone still reporting to work. Not extra money, but potentially a ton more time off, which means longer vacations, picking up OT on another job, or OT for people who may need to fill in for you later. Not the best, but something that recognizes the severity of the situation.
 
RocketMedic said:
I’m wondering what my personal “quit point” is with regards to pay, conditions and risk. Not going to lie, this “reused single use mask” thing and the whole back-talking “we do the best we can” thing Nomadic and a few others have done doesn’t seem terribly safe in the context of, say, Italy. “It’s the job” sort of rings hollow when those same voices say that proper suits and respirators are too expensive to stock.
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It sounds like you are there now. After several years of reading your comments outlining your philosophy and expectations, I can say with some confidence that you will never be satisfied in EMS, or probably anywhere in healthcare.

I would suggest letting current events be the straw that breaks your personal camel's back, and go ahead and submit your resignation immediately and move on to a different line of work.

Good luck.
 
If you are afraid of contracting or spreading infectious diseases to your family, then it’s probably time for you to hang it up and find something else to do. You have been exposed to infectious pathogens literally every day you have gone to work in EMS from the time you started until the time you retire.

The only difference is that this one is crammed down your throat with 2-4 hours of daily news conferences with daily death counts like we’re in the hunger games.. I can pretty much guarantee you didn’t act like this last flu season, a virus that is also quite contagious and also quite deadly to compromised patients.

If you choose to stick it out and come to work, it’s because that’s the job you signed up for: taking care of sick people. There won’t be a combat ribbon at the other end and you don’t deserve extra pay for showing up and doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the last X number of years.

It‘s really that simple..
 
FiremanMike said:
If you are afraid of contracting or spreading infectious diseases to your family, then it’s probably time for you to hang it up and find something else to do. You have been exposed to infectious pathogens literally every day you have gone to work in EMS from the time you started until the time you retire.

The only difference is that this one is crammed down your throat with 2-4 hours of daily news conferences with daily death counts like we’re in the hunger games.. I can pretty much guarantee you didn’t act like this last flu season, a virus that is also quite contagious and also quite deadly to compromised patients.

If you choose to stick it out and come to work, it’s because that’s the job you signed up for: taking care of sick people. There won’t be a combat ribbon at the other end and you don’t deserve extra pay for showing up and doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the last X number of years.

It‘s really that simple..
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When we start paying people hazard pay, I fully expect all of you to forgo it.
 
Remi said:
It sounds like you are there now. After several years of reading your comments outlining your philosophy and expectations, I can say with some confidence that you will never be satisfied in EMS, or probably anywhere in healthcare.

I would suggest letting current events be the straw that breaks your personal camel's back, and go ahead and submit your resignation immediately and move on to a different line of work.

Good luck.
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nein. satisfaction is meh, it’s an opportunity that I can be significantly better at than most and I enjoy what I do. Just not so much some of the people I do it with.

I’m surprised so many of y’all are so altruistic. You should volunteer.
 
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