Flipped an ambulance

[Silver_Lining]

sigh..

I had no idea ambulances were so unsafe. They've been about the same for YEARS.. Is No One working on building a better, safer, less top heavy one?? :excl:

Why don't we just make ambulance hummers. Gutted out & made perfectly medical inside. That's my idea & I'm stickin' to it - til I get a good reason why not. h34r:

maybe too slow? (doubt it.)
too cool? (doubt it.)
expensive? (prolly, but worth it, imo.)

hmmm. :s

I'm glad you guys didn't get badly hurt, & there were no Pts. <3

-C-

 

[harkj]

I'm glad everyone is OK. So what it sounds like is that you weren't transporting anyone, and you and your partner were both up front? Lucky neither of you was in back to bounce around when it flipped.

We both were up front and wearing our seat belts, just got done dropping off a patient at the hospital.

 

[ZVNEMT]

I figure the back of any ambulance is a death box for the tech and the pt.... at least in any ambulance i've been familiar enough with to think about it like that.... every sharp corner seems to be exactly level with my skull... and the bench will probably dump the stretcher and pt onto my chest....

 

[spinnakr]

I had no idea ambulances were so unsafe. They've been about the same for YEARS.. Is No One working on building a better, safer, less top heavy one?? :excl:

Why don't we just make ambulance hummers. Gutted out & made perfectly medical inside. That's my idea & I'm stickin' to it - til I get a good reason why not.

Nah, no hummer. Too small. There needs to be a purpose-built vehicle that isn't a conversion of something else.

Funny thing - I'm planning on doing something like that for my senior project.

 

[TransportJockey]

No matter what people say about Type IIs, this is one of the reasons I like them, they seem to hold up better than either Type I or Type III. Well, that and I like how I can get to everything in a type II.

 

[harkj]

I figure the back of any ambulance is a death box for the tech and the pt.... at least in any ambulance i've been familiar enough with to think about it like that.... every sharp corner seems to be exactly level with my skull... and the bench will probably dump the stretcher and pt onto my chest....

The stretcher did not move at all, now I'm not sure how it would do with a patient on it.

 

[mycrofft]

Around '78 a modular came apart when stricken by a train.

Tumbled along for a ways, killed everyone inside. Cry rose for everyone to wear a helmet from then on, then quiet reason prevailed.

One thing about the old Caddies and even a properly built Suburban, not as much room inside meant not as much room for you and for things to accelerate before they hit something else.

 

[DrParasite]

No matter what people say about Type IIs, this is one of the reasons I like them, they seem to hold up better than either Type I or Type III. Well, that and I like how I can get to everything in a type II.

ugh. Well, type IIs are good for your garden variety BLS call, or an ALS call when it's just 2 medics. However, when start to have a serious ALS call, that requires more people in the back of the ambulance (think cardiac arrest, major trauma, CPAP, etc), it gets really cramped really fast.

also, most busy cities use Type Is, because you can run them into the ground (think 150,000-300,000 miles) in urban EMS systems and they still have some life in them. I know FDNY uses them almost exclusively for this reason.

I'm kinda partial to Type IIIs myself, specious, with a smoother ride than a Type I.

 

[TransportJockey]

ugh. Well, type IIs are good for your garden variety BLS call, or an ALS call when it's just 2 medics. However, when start to have a serious ALS call, that requires more people in the back of the ambulance (think cardiac arrest, major trauma, CPAP, etc), it gets really cramped really fast.

also, most busy cities use Type Is, because you can run them into the ground (think 150,000-300,000 miles) in urban EMS systems and they still have some life in them. I know FDNY uses them almost exclusively for this reason.

Part of it is just I hate working in a box, part of it was doing internship on a box and seeing how much room was never utilized and stuff was just to spread out to get to when belted in.
I've run some pretty nasty calls in a Type II, and been fine. Max I've ever seen taken is 1 rider (we use crews of two) and just one extra person fits fine in the back of a van. CPAP is no big deal, we don't transport cardiac arrests (unless they code during transport), Trauma is really not too big of a deal either. I've worked CCT(driver only, but hell, EMTs are pretty much just ambulance drivers in most systems which is fine), IFT, rural 911, and internship on metro 911, and seen the IIs hold up to abuse just as well if not better than the Is and IIIs. And they roll a hell of a lot better (know this from experience)

 

[medicdan]

Take a look at some of the videos from these user, and you will get an idea how unsafe the patient compartment really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2iNQWCI18M&feature=channel

 

[Silver_Lining]

Nah, no hummer. Too small. There needs to be a purpose-built vehicle that isn't a conversion of something else.

Funny thing - I'm planning on doing something like that for my senior project.

ah. I didn't know the inside area of a hummer would be small if gutted out. :\

But that's a great project plan! I hope you come up with something perfect.

-C-

 

[Veneficus]

it is easier to copy

The largest problem with ambulance safety isn't the vehicle. It's the operators.

Without getting into the effectiveness of using lights and sirens, it basically boils down to another tradition unimpeded by progress.

There is no reason for a provider to stand in the back of an ambulance. You can't effectely do CPR, you must sit or squat to tube somebody, kneel for an IV start.

Rather than make the ambulances bigger, like we have been doing my whole time in EMS, why no make them smaller? You can get a seat right up against a patient. Relocate your required equipment and be seated in belted in a rear facing seat. (one of the safest way to sit in any vehicle) If everything is in arms reach, including both sides of the patients, there is no need to get up.

Then take into account treatment on scene. No reason to transport an arrest without ROSC. If a paramedic can learn advanced treatments like 12 lead interretation, they certainly can be taught some surgical bleeding control. Add in a fridge with some blood products and you could almost completely bypass an ED to surgery. Of course realizing that the need for surgical trauma care has actually been decreasing over the years. (for many reason too numerous to discuss here) With the rest of treatments currently available for a number of pathologies, this idea of a paniced flight to the ED really should have ended in the 80s.

Now I know there will be some patients where rapid transport is indicated.(stroke for one) But there is no condition that justifies risking the lives responders and the public. The math of killing 2 or more providers to "maybe" decrease a deficet doesn't add up to me.

I realize there are places that only have basic cverage, and the solution to that is simple. People don't want the solution so let them receive all they want in abundance. But even still, there is no justifiable reason to have people at risk unrestrained, performing basic life support measures in a moving ambulance driving in a way that increases a traffic accident by the last numbers I saw by the insurance institute of America was 300%.

The European Union has adopted strict ambulance design, safety equipment, and procedures that are used and work (for the most part) everyday. They had things like mechanical pt lifts on their vehicles before striker started making cots.

people are needlessly injured and killed because of our arrogance an ignorance. US EMS lacks the desire to be safe, not the ability.

Getting killed doing something that minimally helps, if at all, while behaving in an unsafe manner that can be mitigated today doesn't make you a good person or a hero. It makes you a fool.

 

[Silver_Lining]

The largest problem with ambulance safety isn't the vehicle. It's the operators.
...
people are needlessly injured and killed because of our arrogance an ignorance. US EMS lacks the desire to be safe, not the ability.

I agree & like most of what you posted here.. I half agree with the first line..As its a part operator, a part ambulance, & part public traffic habits while an ambulance is in rout. Huge pet peeve is when I see medical vehicles trying to make it through traffic & barely anyone pulls over for it to pass. @_@ I can't stand that!

& to the last line I kept from your post; I disagree to it for myself.. however, I hope its really not the majority case with EMTs. :S I think if a paramedic/EMT were asked if they'd like a safer transport & better suited one for work.. I'd assume they all would love one. I think they work with what they get. Wishing they weren't put at needless extra risk.

any who..
good post over all. thnx.

-C-

 

[TransportJockey]

I agree & like most of what you posted here.. I half agree with the first line..As its a part operator, a part ambulance, & part public traffic habits while an ambulance is in rout. Huge pet peeve is when I see medical vehicles trying to make it through traffic & barely anyone pulls over for it to pass. @_@ I can't stand that!

& to the last line I kept from your post; I disagree to it for myself.. however, I hope its really not the majority case with EMTs. :S I think if a paramedic/EMT were asked if they'd like a safer transport & better suited one for work.. I'd assume they all would love one. I think they work with what they get. Wishing they weren't put at needless extra risk.

any who..
good post over all. thnx.

-C-

As long as a lot of services insist on saying they need those oversized monstrosities that they use and are unable to be strapped in and reach anything, they can't say they want a safer work place

 

[JPINFV]

Getting killed doing something that minimally helps, if at all, while behaving in an unsafe manner that can be mitigated today doesn't make you a good person or a hero. It makes you a fool.

I wonder what would happen if lights and sirens required a medical control order to use.

 

[akflightmedic]

I had no idea ambulances were so unsafe. They've been about the same for YEARS.. Is No One working on building a better, safer, less top heavy one?? :excl:

Why don't we just make ambulance hummers. Gutted out & made perfectly medical inside. That's my idea & I'm stickin' to it - til I get a good reason why not. h34r:

maybe too slow? (doubt it.)
too cool? (doubt it.)
expensive? (prolly, but worth it, imo.)

hmmm. :s

I'm glad you guys didn't get badly hurt, & there were no Pts. <3

-C-

We have Hummers and MRAPs as ambulances in Afghanistan...designed as ambulances.

 

[spinnakr]

We have Hummers and MRAPs as ambulances in Afghanistan...designed as ambulances.

Heavily modified, you might say...
(The hummers anyways!)

 

[dmc2007]

When they started really regulating ambulances, it was not required to even fasten the ambulance add-ons to the frame at more than a few points. Modules broke free, and I mean FREE, and the old Suburban conversions' roof caps would fly off and the the entire deck fly out the roof on a roll at speed, basically cleaning out the interior.

IIRC Chevy stopped supporting the Suburban Conversions because there were concerns that the modified roof couldn't take the weight in a rollover.

No matter what people say about Type IIs, this is one of the reasons I like them, they seem to hold up better than either Type I or Type III. Well, that and I like how I can get to everything in a type II.

The only thing that concerns me about Type IIs is the raised roof (see above) and the top-heaviness/narrow wheel base. That being said, the odds of a Type II ending up on its roof are relatively slim.

I really like the Sprinter as an ambulance platform for this reason; no need to modify the roof. Nissan just announced the NV series (www.nissancommercialvehicles.com) with a similar high-roof option. It'll be interesting to see if the ambulance industry embraces it.

 

[looker]

I really like the Sprinter as an ambulance platform for this reason; no need to modify the roof. Nissan just announced the NV series (www.nissancommercialvehicles.com) with a similar high-roof option. It'll be interesting to see if the ambulance industry embraces it.

Regarding sprinter, it cost about 80k vs 55-65 that i can get type 2 for(after getting gpc discount). That is a good 15-25k saving and I personally never had problem with modify rooof in the 10 years that i own nemt company. Will see if i have any problem with ambulance, for now it's to early to say.

Regarding Nissan, it will all depends if it will be gas or diesell and the cost

 

[dmc2007]

Regarding sprinter, it cost about 80k vs 55-65 that i can get type 2 for(after getting gpc discount). That is a good 15-25k saving and I personally never had problem with modify rooof in the 10 years that i own nemt company. Will see if i have any problem with ambulance, for now it's to early to say.

Regarding Nissan, it will all depends if it will be gas or diesell and the cost

It will be available as a diesel. We'll see about the cost.

Glad to hear you've never been in such a situation where the roof strength of your ambulances has been put to the test. May your good fortune continue.