Firefighter Paramedic killed with his own gun

[VentMedic]

Police: Fireman killed with own gun

http://www.news4jax.com/news/21769695/detail.html

Firefighter fatally shot at Fla. gas station
http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-news/679059-firefighter-fatally-shot-at-fla-gas-station/
December 03, 2009

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Emanuel Porter II was supposed to treat gunshot wounds, not die from them.

But Porter, a 21-year-old Jacksonville firefighter/paramedic, was fatally shot early Tuesday when a gun went off in the hand of a woman who picked it up from the seat of a car in the parking lot of an Arlington gas station, police said.

Schmitt said that when Porter got out of the car, he had a gun and took the magazine out. He then put the gun and the magazine on the front seat. Apparently unknown to Saint Breux, there was a round still in the chamber of the .40-caliber gun.

 

[Summit]

10 pages before the lock, two warnings, and a ban.

 

[JCampbell]

Yeah, I guess I don't understand how this IS NOT a blatant troll post. We don't post about every medic who dies in an accident, but we post about one who dies involving a handgun. Doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

 

[Sasha]

Yeah, I guess I don't understand how this IS NOT a blatant troll post. We don't post about every medic who dies in an accident, but we post about one who dies involving a handgun. Doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

So you're saying it's inappropriate to post about a medic's death because we don't post about EVERY medic who dies? There is certainly nothing stopping you from posting about other EMS personell's death.

Considering all the gun talk we've had, I find this article appropriate.

 

[medichopeful]

Considering all the gun talk we've had, I find this article appropriate.

Agreed.

 

[VentMedic]

Yeah, I guess I don't understand how this IS NOT a blatant troll post. We don't post about every medic who dies in an accident, but we post about one who dies involving a handgun. Doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

Have you not seen the numerous recent threads with many, many posts on the subject of carrying weapons on duty, off duty and at various scenes?

 

[Summit]

There's nothing inappropriate about this post! I"m just making my predictions.

 

[VentMedic]

There's nothing inappropriate about this post! I"m just making my predictions.

I had my bet with a couple members on the other forum that the mods here would lock this within 5 minutes of it hitting the internet. Guess I'll have to pay up.

 

[EMSLaw]

Have you not seen the numerous recent threads with many, many posts on the subject of carrying weapons on duty, off duty and at various scenes?

I agree, this thread is totally appropriate.

It seems from the article, though, that this was a failure to follow basic rules of firearm safety - both on his part, in that he left the loaded firearm sitting around, and on the part of the woman who shot him. You treat any gun as if it's loaded, and you never, ever point a gun at anyone or anything you don't intend to shoot.

For me, the reality of this situation is that it is an absolute tragedy that may wind up ending two lives. His, obviously, and the woman who is now facing manslaughter charges. If the article is right, he was working on bettering himself as a Paramedic, and may have had a bright future. Now that won't happen. But that has little to do with the gun - he could have just as easily been hit by an inattentive driver while stepping out of an ambulance, or fallen down the stairs. I think we should avoid the temptation to wave the bloody shirt and scream how this makes guns inherently evil.

 

[JPINFV]

Have you not seen the numerous recent threads with many, many posts on the subject of carrying weapons on duty, off duty and at various scenes?

Sorry, but conceal carry does not absolve the carrier from practicing basic gun sense. This wasn't an accident, it's due to the stupidity of both the woman and the fire fighter. The rules to safely handle a fire arm are short, simple, and multiple ones have to be broken to have stupidity occur (in contrast to a homicide, justified or not)

Things that never should have happened (assuming valid conceal carry).

The gun left control of the valid conceal carrier.

The woman assumed that the fire arm was not loaded.

The woman pointed the gun at person.

The woman touched the trigger (and, yes, it doesn't take that much force to pull a trigger, especially depending on the type of gun. Similarly, I'm extremely skeptical that the gun was an "automatic handgun." Semi-automatic? Possible. Fully automatic? No way.).


Things that never should have happened (assuming not a valid conceal carry).

The gun was loaded.

The gun was improperly stored (locked container in the trunk).

The woman assumed that the fire arm was not loaded.

The woman pointed the gun at person.

The woman touched the trigger.

 

[VentMedic]

It seems from the article, though, that this was a failure to follow basic rules of firearm safety - both on his part, in that he left the loaded firearm sitting around, and on the part of the woman who shot him. You treat any gun as if it's loaded, and you never, ever point a gun at anyone or anything you don't intend to shoot.

Porter, Saint Breux, 18, and two other acquaintances, Mariah Mungo, 16, and Michael Harrell, 21,

He left his gun, loaded or unloaded with a minor and 2 others who probably had no firearm training and did not know the basic rules even though they might seem obvious like not pointing a gun at someone.

For me, the reality of this situation is that it is an absolute tragedy that may wind up ending two lives. His, obviously, and the woman who is now facing manslaughter charges. If the article is right, he was working on bettering himself as a Paramedic, and may have had a bright future. Now that won't happen. But that has little to do with the gun - he could have just as easily been hit by an inattentive driver while stepping out of an ambulance, or fallen down the stairs. I think we should avoid the temptation to wave the bloody shirt and scream how this makes guns inherently evil.

No it is not the gun but if used incorrectly or in the hands of people who fail to follow the basic rules, a gun is very dangerous. This was a death that did not have to happen. It was his own gun that initiated the events and not some inattentive driver. This lapse of safety cost this young man his life and the life of the young woman will never be the same.

Regardless of how the facts may fall, that gun should have been secured. It is useless to blame the young man who lost his life but some should take notice as to how one little slip of the basic rules of safety can change lives very quickly.

 

[JPINFV]

Regardless of how the facts may fall, that gun should have been secured. It is useless to blame the young man who lost his life but some should take notice as to how one little slip of the basic rules of safety can change lives very quickly.

People who aren't serious about gun safety rules shouldn't have guns. However, saying that one incidence of stupidity occurs, therefor no one should be allowed to carry is like saying that because stupidity occurs when driving that no one should be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.

 

[VentMedic]

People who aren't serious about gun safety rules shouldn't have guns. However, saying that one incidence of stupidity occurs, therefor no one should be allowed to carry is like saying that because stupidity occurs when driving that no one should be allowed to operate a motor vehicle.

Yes but the consequences for some acts of stupidity are not as great. One could just end up with a traffic ticket for being stupid in a car. If the act is stupid enough, one shouldn't be driving and hopefully their DL can be suspended or revoked.

However, with either a car or a gun, the responsibility must be recognized. When you choose to own one or both you must be aware of your actions. If you are behind the wheel of a car, you should not be distracted by texting. If you have your gun in your hand, you should be mindful where your are going to point it or leave it especially in the presence of people who may not be familiar with guns.

 

[JCampbell]

I never said it wasn't appropriate, just pointless. It's gonna turn into a thread thats not about a medics death, but more about guns, and I really don't see how more pointless debate on that subject helps anyone.

 

[VentMedic]

I never said it wasn't appropriate, just pointless. It's gonna turn into a thread thats not about a medics death, but more about guns, and I really don't see how more pointless debate on that subject helps anyone.

Too bad you think gun safety and the loss of this young man's life is pointless.

Certain facts and basic rules can be brought out in a debate that make others do some thinking and could prevent them from making similar mistakes. It sometimes takes a tragic event like this to make some situations "real".

 

[daedalus]

Gun safety is of paramount importance, and is directly of concern to us as EMS providers. I think this thread is both timely and important. A FF was killed by his own gun. Tragedy.

Devices with no other function than to kill living things need to be handled with safety and care.

 

[JPINFV]

Devices with no other function than to kill living things need to be handled with safety and care.

Target shooting is a function that doesn't involve killing living things. Doesn't negate the need for safety and care, though.

 

[fortsmithman]

Gun safety is of paramount importance, and is directly of concern to us as EMS providers.

It's called firearm safety.

 

[DV_EMT]

I find it inappropriate as it is designed to flare up certain parties on this forum. Due to the fact that this post was posted within a few days of the "armed EMS" thread being locked and by a member that was fueled against EMS being armed... it appears at though the OP is trolling or trying to "get a last word in".

As a person who posted a lot about "armed EMS" and "CCW", This article doesn't change my position on EMS/Fire being armed. I believe that this article only shows the misuse and lack of safety on the FF's part. Guns are not toys... and he treated it like it was one... hence the unfortunate outcome. His family is in my prayers.

 

[Sasha]

I find it inappropriate as it is designed to flare up certain parties on this forum. Due to the fact that this post was posted within a few days of the "armed EMS" thread being locked and by a member that was fueled against EMS being armed... it appears at though the OP is trolling or trying to "get a last word in".
As a person who posted a lot about "armed EMS" and "CCW", This article doesn't change my position on EMS/Fire being armed. I believe that this article only shows the misuse and lack of safety on the FF's part. Guns are not toys... and he treated it like it was one... hence the unfortunate outcome. His family is in my prayers.

I honestly don't think the OP has control over when a paramedic gets shot and dies... The article's date is 12/3/2009. It's not as if it is an old article she pulled up.