EMT cert expires while working (LA County)

[AztecSergeant]

I'm an EMT in Los Angeles County, CA. My state card expired just over a month ago. I've taken the 24 hour EMT refresher course with skills verification and the 2011 LA Scope of Practice and have all my copies and fee ready to take to the County EMS Agency to recert. However, my hang up is a question on the form that asks if you are currently employed as an EMT or not, and if so, your agency name and contact info.

The problem is that I have been working as an EMT on the ambulance responding to and transporting calls. If I admit to doing so, will that create a flag in the system and get me and/or my employer in trouble with the county?? If I lie and say no, will that be viewable in a background (like say for a fire department) and create a disconnect with work history on a resume that'll just get me in (even more) trouble later on down the road?

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Honesty is the best policy.

Can you go on light duty till this is sorted out? Just because you're employed doesn't mean you have tech calls.

 

[gotbeerz001]

Fall on the sword, say you blew it. Trying to cover it up will get you fired quicker than a lapsed cert will. In fact, what you have done so far makes it clear that you were trying to sneak it by your employer. Not sure how that will go over.

I hope you haven't knowingly come to work on an expired license. [emoji53]

 

[luke_31]

Your best bet is to just put the information down and send in the paperwork. You're already behind the eight ball on this one and nothing good is going to come from waiting any longer. For the record you already are in trouble, you just haven't been caught yet. It is a serious issue to be working without an active license. I've known a few people who got caught and lost their license for a couple years because of it. I used to work in Los Angeles County before I moved and the companies I was with would pull people off the ambulance until they got their license taken care of. I don't know what company you work for, but most likely you will be pulled off the ambulance at a minimum. Not only did you expose yourself to the liability of working without a license, but the company is legally exposed also.

 

[John E]

The least of your worries is a brief lapse in your work history.

Attempting to cover up bad judgment will get you in more trouble than the bad decisions you made ever will.

Stop treating patients and get your license renewed.

Not getting re-certified in time can be put down as a mistake or a simple error, lying about it on a form that's being sent to the state of CA can't be.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Just so you understand the seriousness of the situation: it is illegal for your boss to Bill for every single call that you teched with an expired cert. If they collect I'm pretty sure it's insurance fraud.

 

[Mufasa556]

It looks much better to your managers and future employers that you took responsibility for your mistake. Don't be that guy. If you get caught and have your cert pulled all together you'll never get hired by a fire department. At least if you fess up and take your licks, you come out as someone who takes responsibility for their actions. Management is usually much more lenient with those that are up front with issues.

I've got jammed up in issues that I thought for sure I was getting days off, or in one case, fired for. I explained exactly what happened or why I did what I did and walked away with no corrective actions. We all make mistakes. What we do after those mistakes shows our true character.

Also, I've heard the turn around time for state cards is extensive. Can anyone confirm or deny? My state is up in Feb and was told to take care of it soon since it can take the state up to two months to issue a new card. If that's the case, I'd beg management for any job you can do until this works itself out. Courier, rig wash specialist, call taker, marketer whatever it takes.

 

[John E]

Last time I re-certed it took less than 30 days, that includes mailing everything to LACDHS and recieving my new card from the state. I'd give it 60 days to be safe, there's no downside for doing it early that I'm aware of and there's plenty of downsides to being late.

 

[CentralCalEMT]

This might seem like a harsh post, but I want to drive home the seriousness of this situation to you and anyone else this may apply to.

First off, if your card is expired, do not say you are an EMT in Los Angeles County. You are a average citizen impersonating an EMT. The sad truth you have to accept you broke the law for the better part of a month. I realize it was unintentional, but it happened. Your expiration date is not hidden; it is written on the card in plain view, and it is vitally important to not let any cert lapse (EMT, Ambulance Drivers License, Medical Examiner Card, CPR, ect) Working using any expired cert is a major issue.

Second, you should never lie on ANY application. Our profession demands a high level of honesty and integrity and it is never acceptable to lie. The EMT renewal application is a government document and willingly lying on it could be considered perjury (a criminal offense) in some jurisdictions. Lying on an application, is a serious issue to any future employer.

Third, you need to be prepared for the consequences. Even if you are completely forthcoming, this may very well end your career chances for a long time. If you are trying to go fire in SoCal, you will be competing with 1000 other applicants who have not had this issue. EVERY EMS agency statewide has fines for running calls with non licensed personnel on the ambulance. These fines are generally assessed per violation (transport). They are a matter of public record. According to http://file.lacounty.gov/dhs/cms1_206215.pdf the penalty PER OCCURANCE in the county you are working in is $250. I do not know how many patients you have transported in that time, but as you can see, the fines really do add up. Generally they are assessed against the employer, however administrative penalties can be leveled on your EMT card up to and including revocation or denial of your recert. The fine is detailed on page 5 of that PDF.

The best advice is to let your employer know exactly what is happening, you can also contact legal representation as well if you you feel that is in your best interest. I wish you the best, but from how you describe the situation, it has the potential to be very serious.

 

[gonefishing]

Takes less than 2 weeks for a new card. Heck last one I did took a week! honesty is ALWAYS the best policy and this just proves your character.

 

[AztecSergeant]

Thanks all for the advice and tough love. Looking back I can't even believe I ever contemplated trying to mislead anyone. I must've panicked for a minute. Glad I only contemplated it on an anonymous forum, not in real life, I don't need that kind of trouble. I'm actually kind of ashamed of myself for ever even considering it, not to mention embarrased by the whole losing track of my own dang cert dates :/ Hope no one else runs into this issue and is on top of their stuff. I tell you what, learning experience right here. Lesson learned: Never rely on a tracker at work to remind me of my own assignments. Besides programming an alert into my online calendar to pop up 60, 30, 15, 7 and 1 days prior, I've now printed out a hard copy Excel spreadsheet and pinned it up next to my calendar with all my certs and expiration dates and will be sure to write them into the 2015 calendar along side my scheduled work dates (so me and my family will know at a glance when I'm working and my "due outs" without having to log in to any system).

Now all that being said, after discovering the problem I did phone my supervisor the same day and appraised him of the situation. He was less than happy of course, but immediately pulled me from the schedule until I got my new card. It's not final yet, since it has to come from management apparently, but what I can expect in terms of disciplinary action from my employer, besides the lost shifts, is a demotion to the first, entry level pay grade (I was at the second level), a written letter of reprimand, will most likely pay a fine to my agency and will likely be suspended from working. Apparently this has happened before unfortunately, but not recently, so management will have to look into what they did the last time before deciding on a final punishment for me, to ensure fairness (that I'm not over- or under-punished compared to the last guy who had the same trangression, which from what I understand was a while ago, and hopefully will be a while before someone screws up as royally as I did), to cover their butt's from the county and state regulators, and apparently as a means to show the county I've been duly punished so that they don't have to take further actions against me. In a future interview/background with an FD this will certainly hinder me, and be an uphill battle, I can (hopefully) present this as a lessons learned and while I screwed up I owned up to it and am taking my medicine....while if the county takes action against me, I can pretty much kiss my dreams good bye.

As far as the fines for working under the expired cert, my supervisor thinks off the top of his head that it'll only apply to the actual times I rode in the back by myself with the patients. Since I didn't (don't) have a currently assigned partner I've kind of been working swing shifts, sometimes with a fellow EMT on a BLS unit, sometimes with a medic on an ALS unit, sometimes driving, sometimes attending...so they need to look into when exactly I was attending BLS patients, at least that's their current plan to asses fines as I understand it.

So my current status is that I now have a current, valid CA EMT card and have been placed back onto the work schedule, and management is now discussing their official response and disciplinary actions.