EMS Unions in So cal

[DesertMedic66]

Not caring is one thing, and not getting the info is another. I maintain 100% compliance on my PCRs but since I don't care I don't go out of my way to get it... And most importantly patient care comes first, in fact that's what they use to preach back in EMT and Paramedic school. As far as me not realizing? Only thing I've realized is that according to a handful of individuals on this forum billing is more important. Whatever its a mute point....All I wanted was everyone's experience or observations on EMS unions and instead I got gang banged by the crusading ambulance company billing expert lynch mob. Ha ha ha ha ha

You posted a thread about how every company should have a union and how it will help everyone (which is clearly false). Then made clearly false statements about unions and what they do. You failed to realize that we should care about billing because without patients being billed all private ambulance companies would fail as a service.

You got everyone's experience with unions and to the most part they aren't very helpful. Feel free at any time to go into the other fields of work which you posted about several times.

 

[SkiMaskWay]

You posted a thread about how every company should have a union and how it will help everyone (which is clearly false). Then made clearly false statements about unions and what they do. You failed to realize that we should care about billing because without patients being billed all private ambulance companies would fail as a service.

You got everyone's experience with unions and to the most part they aren't very helpful. Feel free at any time to go into the other fields of work which you posted about several times.

I did already go work in a different field and I do make substantially better wages with no experience and I have Frindge benefits. And that's why I was wondering what is so different about this field that even at entry level requires specialized training. I'm a Paramedic still part time only, I show up to see old medic and EMT friends only I get paid some extra beer money while I'm at it and to keep my License current. Now what False information have I posted? You seem biased towards unions. Firefighters, Nurses, even grocery store workers have them and they all seem to have better paying positions compared to Private EMS workers, how is that false?

 

[MrJones]

I did already go work in a different field and I do make substantially better wages with no experience and I have Frindge benefits. And that's why I was wondering what is so different about this field that even at entry level requires specialized training. I'm a Paramedic still part time only, I show up to see old medic and EMT friends only I get paid some extra beer money while I'm at it and to keep my License current. Now what False information have I posted? You seem biased towards unions. Firefighters, Nurses, even grocery store workers have them and they all seem to have better paying positions compared to Private EMS workers, how is that false?

Please - put down the shovel.

 

[Jon]

Not caring is one thing, and not getting the info is another. I maintain 100% compliance on my PCRs but since I don't care I don't go out of my way to get it... And most importantly patient care comes first, in fact that's what they use to preach back in EMT and Paramedic school. As far as me not realizing? Only thing I've realized is that according to a handful of individuals on this forum billing is more important. Whatever its a mute point....All I wanted was everyone's experience or observations on EMS unions and instead I got gang banged by the crusading ambulance company billing expert lynch mob. Ha ha ha ha ha

Billing is secondary to patient care... But it does need to get done. And if you're NOT gathering the information, the company is paying someone ELSE to do it.... With money that you could perhaps be getting paid. It's often far easier to gather the information at the time of service than down the road (capturing signatures, copies of insurance cards, copies of ID's or face sheets).


Nurses get paid more because their industry organization (ANA) pushed for most RN jobs to require a BSN. I know of far more nurses that are NON union than are union, and they all get paid MUCH more because of education.

You claim to be a highly educated prehospital provider, yet your spelling and grammar are indicative of someone who's never graduated high school. Image matters. Oh, and if you're spelling like that in your chart, it's making it harder to bill and more likely to be rejected.

Personally, I think the way to improve our industry's pay practices is to follow nursing. Increase education requirements, and eventually the money (and respect) will follow. Unions can't make a difference when the payors won't pay more.



Oh, and NEMSA was (I guess still is) a union that had an ambitious goal. They were going to be one EMS union to rule them all, starting with AMR. Their idea was to have one union negotiating for multiple AMR divisions all at once. Wasn't a bad idea, in theory. They appeared to start well, but I think the most charitable way to put it is that they got too big to quickly, and when they needed to negotiate in multiple locations at once, they sold some operations down the river while focusing on others.

 

[iftmedic]

Billing is secondary to patient care... But it does need to get done. And if you're NOT gathering the information, the company is paying someone ELSE to do it.... With money that you could perhaps be getting paid. It's often far easier to gather the information at the time of service than down the road (capturing signatures, copies of insurance cards, copies of ID's or face sheets).


Nurses get paid more because their industry organization (ANA) pushed for most RN jobs to require a BSN. I know of far more nurses that are NON union than are union, and they all get paid MUCH more because of education.

You claim to be a highly educated prehospital provider, yet your spelling and grammar are indicative of someone who's never graduated high school. Image matters. Oh, and if you're spelling like that in your chart, it's making it harder to bill and more likely to be rejected.

Personally, I think the way to improve our industry's pay practices is to follow nursing. Increase education requirements, and eventually the money (and respect) will follow. Unions can't make a difference when the payors won't pay more.



Oh, and NEMSA was (I guess still is) a union that had an ambitious goal. They were going to be one EMS union to rule them all, starting with AMR. Their idea was to have one union negotiating for multiple AMR divisions all at once. Wasn't a bad idea, in theory. They appeared to start well, but I think the most charitable way to put it is that they got too big to quickly, and when they needed to negotiate in multiple locations at once, they sold some operations down the river while focusing on others.

UOTE]
Thanks for the union information... Finally someone shed some light. It's nice to see you jumped on the band wagon and decided to display your excellent editorial abilities as well and insult SkiMask... NEMSA sounds like they had a good plan, I just spoke to the Director in charge of that union out of Modesto I think, He sounded like he was very knowledgeable and informed.
I think that education is important for the industry specially with Barriers to entry, but I also think union can play an important role as well, specially with companies that absolutely disregard employees rights, unfair treatment, unjustified disciplinary actions, pay and benefits. I also work in LA and I know how bad companies treat EMTs
I think the Nursing field has prevailing wages throughout the industry set forth by the nurses association regardless of BSN or ASN. Most nurses won't work for crappy pay because most of them work for hospitals that have Unions that fight for the rights of all nurses, I mean Firefighters and Police officers have unions too recently I watched hundreds of LAPD officers at city hall rallying and demanding more pay and benefits spearheaded by the LAPD officers association. I do get signatures and PCS forms signed if my patient's condition permits, but normally in a busy 911 system if you can't get it? oh well! You clear and go to the next run, that's been my experience at least in places like ICEMA and REMS.

 

[DesertMedic66]

UOTE]
Thanks for the union information... Finally someone shed some light. It's nice to see you jumped on the band wagon and decided to display your excellent editorial abilities as well and insult SkiMask... NEMSA sounds like they had a good plan, I just spoke to the Director in charge of that union out of Modesto I think, He sounded like he was very knowledgeable and informed.
I think that education is important for the industry specially with Barriers to entry, but I also think union can play an important role as well, specially with companies that absolutely disregard employees rights, unfair treatment, unjustified disciplinary actions, pay and benefits. I also work in LA and I know how bad companies treat EMTs
I think the Nursing field has prevailing wages throughout the industry set forth by the nurses association regardless of BSN or ASN. Most nurses won't work for crappy pay because most of them work for hospitals that have Unions that fight for the rights of all nurses, I mean Firefighters and Police officers have unions too recently I watched hundreds of LAPD officers at city hall rallying and demanding more pay and benefits spearheaded by the LAPD officers association. I do get signatures and PCS forms signed if my patient's condition permits, but normally in a busy 911 system if you can't get it? oh well! You clear and go to the next run, that's been my experience at least in places like ICEMA and REMS.

Not really in REMS anymore. We are required to get a face sheet from the hospital and have the patient/family/or a nurse to sign before we are able to respond to another 911 call

 

[DieselBolus]

Not caring is one thing, and not getting the info is another. I maintain 100% compliance on my PCRs but since I don't care I don't go out of my way to get it... And most importantly patient care comes first, in fact that's what they use to preach back in EMT and Paramedic school. As far as me not realizing? Only thing I've realized is that according to a handful of individuals on this forum billing is more important. Whatever its a mute point....All I wanted was everyone's experience or observations on EMS unions and instead I got gang banged by the crusading ambulance company billing expert lynch mob. Ha ha ha ha ha

A huge contributory factory to how much you get paid is the slim margin ambulance companies operate on.

A larger proportion of billable calls is what creates the money you want. Not a magical union that quadruples your pay.

If you think we are all wrong, ask your supervisor what would happen to your company if his labor costs went up by 20%, let alone what you expect for your "professional" position.

To go full circle, fish to fry..

 

[Mufasa556]

I really love this forum.

The employees at the company I work for have tried to unionize twice. The first time didn't get much traction. The second time, people from the union started showing up at employees homes asking a bunch of questions. Management flipped. Employees rabble roused. Then we voted and it didn't get enough votes. A couple companies in the area tried to unionize also and it never gathered enough votes. That seems to be the story everytime. Lots of noise. No action.

I had two buddies leave my company for another union company. I remember how excited one was. He was dancing a little jig through the back parking lot. Wagging his finger with glee. Talking how green the grass will be. Sure he started at $10.60hr. A whopping 50cents more than we were making. It was the same rodeo. Broke off rigs. Dilapidated stations. The crews were making some decent money working a 72/96 schedule. The union dropped them down to only 2 48s a week.

There's a lot of good information in this thread, if you choose to absorb it. I'm sure companies could pay their employees more, but why should they? If you join the plumbers union, you spend your career working as a plumber. Most EMTs I've met are on the move. They're spending as few moments as they can in the rig before they're a fireman or get burnt and choose a new career. I've seen so many great medical professionals, with a deep passion for caring for others, who went above and beyond with the most sincere acts of kindness, get burnt by the business and go back to waiting tables or construction.

A union is not going to make people stay longer. The union won't fix busted rigs or blown out stations. I talked at great lengths with the union folks. One question they asked was, "Don't you want to make it better for those in the future?" I do, but I don't think the union is the way to do it. I'd rather see the mentality of those coming in change.

 

[Aprz]

At the first place I worked at that had a union, I didn't know much about unions then. All I remember is people complaining that they negotiated a terrible contract, and the contract stilled passed.

At the second place I worked at that had a union, I was initially anti union. I didn't know much about unions then, but I was convinced through my company that unions were bad. After working a while at the company, I saw organizers and my co-workers participating in the union doing their best to fight for us to have a higher wage and better working conditions. Why would you hate a group that wants to increase your wage, improve your working condition, and protect your job? I joined that fight, and I am hoping to become shop steward soon.

I think one of the biggest problems with unions is that people will become unionized and automatically expect magic to happen. People will say things like "I am waiting for the union to..." and that is the problem. If you don't participate like not going to union meetings, not willing to talk to co-workers about the union, turn your head ahead from your co-workers who talk union, ignore union organizers, not pick up phone calls, not read your e-mails, not participate in actions like wear a button or sticker, and you're willing to accept low wage, not strike, etc. then yeh, your union will probably not be successful at negotiating things in your favor. It makes me sad to see people complain about pay, but then say it is OK, and blame the union for low pay after ignoring the union by literally turning your head away ignoring anybody that tries to communicate with you about the union. It is also extremely hard in EMS due to high attrition. You are constantly having to convince people to even join in the first place.

 

[iftmedic]

At the first place I worked at that had a union, I didn't know much about unions then. All I remember is people complaining that they negotiated a terrible contract, and the contract stilled passed.

At the second place I worked at that had a union, I was initially anti union. I didn't know much about unions then, but I was convinced through my company that unions were bad. After working a while at the company, I saw organizers and my co-workers participating in the union doing their best to fight for us to have a higher wage and better working conditions. Why would you hate a group that wants to increase your wage, improve your working condition, and protect your job? I joined that fight, and I am hoping to become shop steward soon.

I think one of the biggest problems with unions is that people will become unionized and automatically expect magic to happen. People will say things like "I am waiting for the union to..." and that is the problem. If you don't participate like not going to union meetings, not willing to talk to co-workers about the union, turn your head ahead from your co-workers who talk union, ignore union organizers, not pick up phone calls, not read your e-mails, not participate in actions like wear a button or sticker, and you're willing to accept low wage, not strike, etc. then yeh, your union will probably not be successful at negotiating things in your favor. It makes me sad to see people complain about pay, but then say it is OK, and blame the union for low pay after ignoring the union by literally turning your head away ignoring anybody that tries to communicate with you about the union. It is also extremely hard in EMS due to high attrition. You are constantly having to convince people to even join in the first place.

Extremely helpful info. This is the kinda response we needed on this thread. Thank you.