Drug Screening / Testing in EMS

[CobraIV]

A friend told me he gets a drug test every month no drugs no booze

 

[mgr22]

Frequent and random.

 

[CaydenElizalde]

Why do you need fake pee...? If you're going to do drugs that are going to cause you problems without any real medical reason, then you shouldn't be doing them anyways, especially as a healthcare provider.

That said, we get tested often enough and randomly.

 

[shfd739]

Preemployment, randoms, after OJIs, after vehicle incidents and after controlled substances go missing.

In 8 years I've never had a random.

 

[Amberlamps916]

America......

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

how often do they test you and when? also do they pat you down? i know when i was in the navy they would watch you so hopefully its not as strict.

Dude, really?!? Either you're dangerous and amoral, or this is a troll. My money's on troll.

 

[usalsfyre]

Due to the potential for getting tested after an incident I would recommend another field if you can't abstain.

...controlled substances go missing.

Ahh yes, the joy of getting called in to pee in a cup because someone can't farking count.

 

[shfd739]

Due to the potential for getting tested after an incident I would recommend another field if you can't abstain.


Ahh yes, the joy of getting called in to pee in a cup because someone can't farking count.

The best was when they went missing out of a code-locked compartment on a unit that I never got close to during my shift. Everyone on duty had to go. My partner and I played it so we were the last ones to show up--and the place was out of test kits..no test for us.

 

[Jon]

Due to the potential for getting tested after an incident I would recommend another field if you can't abstain.


Ahh yes, the joy of getting called in to pee in a cup because someone can't farking count.

Amen. That or post-incident screening (You crashed the ambulance? Even if it's not your fault?).

I'm always studying for my drug test.

Oh - I merged the OTHER drug screen thread into this one. This one seems to be going somewhere productive. Let's keep it that way.

 

[Tigger]

It's unfortunate that marijuana testing is always done through urine. From what I understand, should you be pulled over and arrested for OUI of marijuana, you will have blood drawn and the the THC content in your blood will be measured. If you are not a chronic smoker and go to have your blood drawn a few days later, the THC levels will be back to "normal" as you are are no longer high. Meanwhile a pee test cannot differentiate whether you smoked yesterday or a month ago.

Say what you want about marijuana use, but it seems like testing for it is still in the dark ages. Or maybe I have all this wrong and the drug counselor I was having an offhanded conversation with may have just been making all the above up.

 

[Anjel]

There are a few companies I knoe of that do hair tests. So OP, you would be screwed.

My current company is...

When you get hired

If you damage the ambulance in any way.

If you get hurt. I pulled a muscle and got drug tested. Its very easy to get hurt in EMS.

Whenever the sup thinks you are "acting funny".

And when drugs go missings.

 

[JPINFV]

Say what you want about marijuana use, but it seems like testing for it is still in the dark ages. Or maybe I have all this wrong and the drug counselor I was having an offhanded conversation with may have just been making all the above up.

For a schedule 1 drug, there's a value argument that it's irrelevant whether you used it two days ago or two hours ago.

 

[wutthedutch]

Dude, really?!? Either you're dangerous and amoral, or this is a troll. My money's on troll.

cannabis is much healthier than alcohol no im not trolling, so many damn prudes on here

@veneficus i chose it for health reasons. with alcohol raises estrogen, breaks down your muscles and your brain literally soaks in the alcohol causes much more damage. cannabis when vaporized isnt bad for your lungs and only temporarily affects short term memory if anything

 

[Veneficus]

Finally, how many companies have a zero opioid (prescription or otherwise) policy? After all, the effects are the same whether they're being abused or properly used.

It has been my experience in most places I have worked that while you are taking opioids, you must be on light duty (no driving, patient contact, lifting, machinery, or near open flame) or off using sicktime, PTO, FMLA, etc.

Upon stopping prescription opioids, you would be retested at 6 months and 1 year automatically.

Opioid without a prescription was instant termination upon a positive test.

Places I worked had pre-employment drug testing, random (picked monthly by lottery), if narcs were unaccounted for, after any incident involving a motor vehicle (at fault or not), immediately upon injury at work, after any patient care error that had the potential (or actually caused) harm, and of course if you were suspected by another employee.

Things to consider other than employment.

Most states have a "moral turpitude" clause for EMS certification. It is basically the civillian equivalent of "conduct unbecoming". It is a catch 22 that basically says "you made a decision or performed an action we don't approve of and we are going to punish you for it".

Which means you will likely face a long hard road to recovering your ability to practice. (in fact one of the questions on my medical school application was: "Have you ever had any healthcare certification revoked or disciplinary action affecting your right to practice?")

Both individuals and employers in my home state are required to report to the board of EMS various disciplinary infarctions. Drug use being one.

Unless something changed, workman's comp will not pay if a worker was injured while under the influence. A positive drug test whether you are currently under the influence or not will create a world of headache for you. Most likely starting with your claim being denied.

Insurance may not cover you. Which means if things go wrong, you could be all on your own.

Again in my home state, a provider is mandated to self report to the board of EMS all criminal action against them within a certain time frame. (I forget how long because I have never needed to know) but I think it is between 14 and 90 days.

That means, when you get busted off duty for possession, purchasing, or paraphernalia, you probably will not be going to work the follwoing day, even if you post bail. (including personal bail by signing the ticket) Since you lost your immediate ability to work based on your action, you likely will be fired on the spot, if you lack the ability to call in sick and stay off work until you can either get out of the charges in a way that the state board will still let you be certified.

Since my home state publically posts infarctions on a website, that might be a tough thing to conceal when you call in sick for 2 straight weeks and your employer gets suspicious. (I don't advocate trying to conceal things like this from your employer, but I know people will try.)

If you think some recreational time is worth all these risks, that is your business, not mine.

I have simply made you aware.

Personally I try not to tempt fate. As some on this site who have worked with me can attest, no matter how remote the possibility something will go wrong, when I am working, it will go wrong with style.

 

[Veneficus]

It's unfortunate that marijuana testing is always done through urine. From what I understand, should you be pulled over and arrested for OUI of marijuana, you will have blood drawn and the the THC content in your blood will be measured. If you are not a chronic smoker and go to have your blood drawn a few days later, the THC levels will be back to "normal" as you are are no longer high. Meanwhile a pee test cannot differentiate whether you smoked yesterday or a month ago.

Say what you want about marijuana use, but it seems like testing for it is still in the dark ages. Or maybe I have all this wrong and the drug counselor I was having an offhanded conversation with may have just been making all the above up.

I think the issue is more of cost, a urine test costs considerably less than a blood test where I have been.

 

[Veneficus]

cannabis is much healthier than alcohol no im not trolling, so many damn prudes on here

What makes you think that?

 

[NomadicMedic]

We are tested on hire, every year at our physical, following an accident or injury, if two supervisors have reason to believe you may be under the influence and randomly, generated by computer, while you're on shift.

Needless to say, we're tested often.

Not judging, but if you can't stay away from the herb, EMS may not be the job for you.

 

[systemet]

i chose it for health reasons. with alcohol raises estrogen, breaks down your muscles and your brain literally soaks in the alcohol causes much more damage. cannabis when vaporized isnt bad for your lungs and only temporarily affects short term memory if anything

Would you like to clarify the "your brain literally soaks in alcohol?" comment? Are you somehow of the impression that cannabinoids don't penetrate the CNS, because you might want to think that one through a little?

Regarding marijuana, I accept that much of the research is deeply flawed, and there has been some academic fraud in this area. But to think that it's effects have been well describes and that any risks are well known would be naive.

My EMS time has been outside of the states, where the war on drugs is a little tamer. I've never been tested, including after accidents. I think generally our policies on narcotic control are less strict.

For what it's worth, I'm against marijuana prohibition. But, if you're doing EMS, and your continued employment in a field that you've invested significant time and money in, is dependent on passing a drug test, I think I would just stop using drugs. It just seems that the risk is too high. I don't know you're personal situation, but let's say now in a few years you have a wife or husband, mortgage, a couple of kids, and your paycheque is coming from EMS. Are you really going to risk that every month? Or on a random basis? That seems like a large risk, especially if you can't make the same income outside of EMS. Consider also, that this is a small field, and while it takes years to build a reputation, it can be destroyed very very quickly.

Also, have you considered the situation where someone you work with is stealing narcotics? It seems like your potential employer may have the power to test in that situation. If a bunch of fentanyl is missing, but you throw a positive THC, do you think they're going to believe it's not you?

 

[Veneficus]

nice try

@veneficus i chose it for health reasons. with alcohol raises estrogen, breaks down your muscles and your brain literally soaks in the alcohol causes much more damage. cannabis when vaporized isnt bad for your lungs and only temporarily affects short term memory if anything

:rofl:

I think you have seriously oversimplified how alcohol works.

There are even health benefits to alcohol consumption,

here is some light reading for you,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21877303

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21999906

there are some 700 studies on pubmed detailing everything from epidemiology to the very genes involved in linking cannabis use to schizophrenia.

There are also studies that link it to other psychosis as well.

The 2 studies I cited demonstrate not only the psychoactive side effects of THC, but systemic issues as well.

 

[Tigger]

I think the issue is more of cost, a urine test costs considerably less than a blood test where I have been.

You are correct of course. However, the purpose of random drug testing is to determine whether or not an employee is under the influence while at work. Pee tests don't really do this, they just say you may have been.

For a schedule 1 drug, there's a value argument that it's irrelevant whether you used it two days ago or two hours ago.

Fair enough, many people seem to forget that as "harmless" as marijuana is, it is still in the same class as say heroin.

If serious change is going to come with regards to the legality of marijuana use, it's going to have change schedules first.