Drug Screening / Testing in EMS

[Tigger]

So here is another screening question for everyone. You've been injured and are unable to work. The injury has you enough pain to require opioid pain management as well as muscle relaxant use. Will your employer test you when you come back to work?

I'd never experienced the effects of these drugs until this week and all I can say is that I hope companies do test before letting you back to work. I can post on EMTLife right now and watch TV, but driving and critical thinking where someone else's life might be affected are presently out of the question for me.

 

[JPINFV]

Fair enough, many people seem to forget that as "harmless" as marijuana is, it is still in the same class as say heroin.

If serious change is going to come with regards to the legality of marijuana use, it's going to have change schedules first.

Interesting note, cocaine is still a schedule 2 drug.

 

[Veneficus]

Answered your question above.

Did you get soma or flexeril?

Get well soon.

 

[Tigger]

Answered your question above.

Did you get soma or flexeril?

Get well soon.

I was asking the forum as a whole, just trying to get a feel for how different systems and agencies operate.

Presently I am taking 5mg Valium, 10mg Percocet, and 500mg Naproxen.

 

[Veneficus]

Presently I am taking 5mg Valium, 10mg Percocet, and 500mg Naproxen.

candy

 

[Tigger]

Interesting note, cocaine is still a schedule 2 drug.

Personally I think the scheduling system is a bit flawed. Yes, cocaine can be used as a vasconstritor and local anesthetic for surgical procedures so there is a legitimate medical use for it. However, there are a myriad of alternatives to cocaine for this, the doctors I work with prefer using 10% Benzocaine injection along with some Epi 1:10,000 (if I recall correctly) in order to achieve a similar effect. Just because a drug has a conceivable medical use doesn't seem like it must be scheduled accordingly, especially when multiple alternatives exist.

 

[Veneficus]

Personally I think the scheduling system is a bit flawed. Yes, cocaine can be used as a vasconstritor and local anesthetic for surgical procedures so there is a legitimate medical use for it. However, there are a myriad of alternatives to cocaine for this, the doctors I work with prefer using 10% Benzocaine injection along with some Epi 1:10,000 (if I recall correctly) in order to achieve a similar effect. Just because a drug has a conceivable medical use doesn't seem like it must be scheduled accordingly, especially when multiple alternatives exist.

Especially considering opium has been used medically for centuries.

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

cannabis is much healthier than alcohol no im not trolling, so many damn prudes on here

@veneficus i chose it for health reasons. with alcohol raises estrogen, breaks down your muscles and your brain literally soaks in the alcohol causes much more damage. cannabis when vaporized isnt bad for your lungs and only temporarily affects short term memory if anything

Not being prudish. It's just simple logic. If something is legal then by all means knock yourself out. If it is illegal then don't do it. If you you disagree then either change the policy, change the laws, change your profession, or change your residence.

The choice is yours. Because that is what it all boils down to... choice.

 

[JohSco]

Wow, I never expected to start a debate! :lol:

I've been calling around different states, and it seems the policy for drug screening differs. In one state, (I'm not saying which one, sorry, I don't want to jinx it), I was told by HR that all employees are only subject to "suspicion" testing. No pre-employment screen. I didn't ask about incident screens, but I imagine they probably do them for insurance and liability issues.

Thanks for the stimulating and enlightening discussion everyone.

 

[Shishkabob]

So here is another screening question for everyone. You've been injured and are unable to work. The injury has you enough pain to require opioid pain management as well as muscle relaxant use. Will your employer test you when you come back to work?

When you take a drug screen, you advise them of what can be in your system. If it's legal, it has a prescription. If it has a prescription, it can be explained. You will pop positive, but it will be disregarded because it's legal.

 

[Shishkabob]

cannabis is much healthier than alcohol no im not trolling, so many damn prudes on here

@veneficus i chose it for health reasons. with alcohol raises estrogen, breaks down your muscles and your brain literally soaks in the alcohol causes much more damage. cannabis when vaporized isnt bad for your lungs and only temporarily affects short term memory if anything

Go back through the past couple of years on this forum. You'll see many discussions on 'medical' marijuana, and how it's an ill-conceived fallacy.



If you do 'medical' marijuana, don't expect to work in EMS. Especially not here in DFW.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I've been calling around different states, and it seems the policy for drug screening differs. In one state, (I'm not saying which one, sorry, I don't want to jinx it), I was told by HR that all employees are only subject to "suspicion" testing. No pre-employment screen. I didn't ask about incident screens, but I imagine they probably do them for insurance and liability issues.

Non-EMS, but another thing on that vein: With the economy and a larger pool of candidates to choose from, a lot of the businesses in my area (casinos, ski resorts, big box stores, etc.) have gone from a "suspicion testing" system to a "pre-employment and suspicion testing" system. One of the ski resorts for instance only tested after an incident. To test everyone before hiring (including all the wasted low-lifes) would have cut their work force down by 50% or more; something they could not afford. When they started employment testing that is exactly what happened: 50% of the employees who attempted to return from last season could not be hired. no biggie... there were plenty more to choose from.

And that was kinda my point in an early post: In a market that is over-saturated (as EMS tends to be; especially in BLS providers) than the employer has more options and is able to move on to another canidate for any reason they have; you looked funny, they hated that mustache on your face, you reminded them of an ex girlfriend, or you ate a poppy seed muffin for breakfast :blink:. That is why presenting the employer with the best image of a good potential employee is PARAMOUNT!!!

When you take a drug screen, you advise them of what can be in your system. If it's legal, it has a prescription. If it has a prescription, it can be explained. You will pop positive, but it will be disregarded because it's legal.

Explained? Yes. Legal? Yes? Disregarded? Maybe not. If a potential side effect of a legally prescribed drug could put the company or business at risk, the employer still has valid reason not to hire you or to keep you out of the field until the medication is no longer required/used. How many potential side effects are listed as "may cause drowsiness", or the warnings "do not drive" or "do not operate heavy machinery". Even if you feel you are good to operate on the medication, if something were to happen (even if it was no fault of your own) and legal action was taken, the fact that you were on that medication could have bad consequences for the company or you. i.e Driving under the influence often encompasses more than etoh and can included prescription and recreational drugs. As an employer, why take the risk. Can they legally terminate you for that? Don't think so, but they can sure as hell limit your duty or place you on "inactive status".

 

[Tigger]

When you take a drug screen, you advise them of what can be in your system. If it's legal, it has a prescription. If it has a prescription, it can be explained. You will pop positive, but it will be disregarded because it's legal.

I mean following treatment. It's not inconceivable that an employee might try and come back to work early if they needed the cash while still using meds to control pain.

 

[bigbaldguy]

This is only vaguely related but my union recently sent out a notice to us making us aware that certain OTC drugs had been recalled due to possible opiate contamination. Not sure if someone actually blew a test or if it was just precautionary.

http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health...n-NoDoz-bottles-are-being-recalled/52470062/1

 

[Shishkabob]

Explained? Yes. Legal? Yes? Disregarded? Maybe not. If a potential side effect of a legally prescribed drug could put the company or business at risk, the employer still has valid reason not to hire you or to keep you out of the field until the medication is no longer required/used.

Of course they won't let you back in the field while actively taking substances such as that. My point was they won't take any adverse action if it's a legal prescription.

 

[Veneficus]

I mean following treatment. It's not inconceivable that an employee might try and come back to work early if they needed the cash while still using meds to control pain.

This is one of the reasons it's best to communicate with your supervisors when/before you start treatment, not after the test comes back positive.

But I have seen people do many stupid things.

One of my favorites was during an industrial medicine job.

Because of the multimillion dollar machinery involved, the company had a zero tolerance drug policy. One of the workers died (a rather sudden and untimely death out of work) So a bunch of the workers went out an "smoked up in his honor."

After one came up positive on a random screen, she gave up the rest, thinking because there were many people they would be given a pass on this because of it being a 1 time thing and the circumstances involved.

Didn't quite work out like she thought. All named were tested that day and all that came back positive were unemployed that day too.

HR was even nice enough to bring final cheques to hand out down to the clinic. (we didn't have direct deposite in those days.) Cops were nice enough to escort them off the property too.

From the new employee standpoint, it would really suck to move to a different state, sign a lease, open up a bank account, etc, to lose your job a few weeks later.

But were it not for people like that, many of us would not have a job, don't judge, just collect your pay cheque.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

All named were tested that day and all that came back positive were unemployed that day too.

How long did it take you to find a new job?

 

[Veneficus]

How long did it take you to find a new job?

In those days, an EMT fired today would be in orientation somewhere else tomorrow.

Likely with a higher pay rate.


It is definately not like that now.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

In those days, an EMT fired today would be in orientation somewhere else tomorrow.

Likely with a higher pay rate.


It is definately not like that now.

Not what I meant. "You" as in Venie, not the general employee you.

 

[Veneficus]

Not what I meant. "You" as in Venie, not the general employee you.

oh right, yea.

you know me, mind altering substances all the way.