Can we stop some of these, please ?

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eynonqrs

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1) Can we stop the bashing of EMT's ? We are all here to do a job and we should all work together to improve ourselves as providers, no matter what level of training that we have.

2) Enough of bashing volunteers. I know that everyone says that we are keeping wages down and on and on. Did you ever think that maybe low payment rates from insurance and the greed of owners are doing that ? I am happy with my employer, they do give us fair wages.
 

gosu4you

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I don't understand why people would bash volunteers anyways...I'm guessing at least 65% of all paid Firefighters were at some point or time a volunteer. We have to volunteer seeing as how we can't get any paid jobs yet...We all have to start somewhere, don't get mad at us for pursuing our dreams of becoming firefighters.<_<
 

EMTinNEPA

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What do firefighters have to do with this thread?
 

Shishkabob

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Reaper will always do it. I pretty much ignore all he says, and forget he's here half the time... and not just for this reason.






^_^

kidding reaps...
 

Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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1) Can we stop the bashing of EMT's ? We are all here to do a job and we should all work together to improve ourselves as providers, no matter what level of training that we have.

2) Enough of bashing volunteers. I know that everyone says that we are keeping wages down and on and on. Did you ever think that maybe low payment rates from insurance and the greed of owners are doing that ? I am happy with my employer, they do give us fair wages.

1) I agree, let's stop bashing volunteers. Let's stop as soon as the minimum requirements of the EMT is at least one year long and the starting salary is that of a LPN or we have totally removed the EMT level altogether from EMS and place them into strictly first response area. Then when we require the Paramedic at the minimum to have an degree to enter and the only level to start within EMS.

Will you still support as a volunteer these amendments and agree to participate in making it so? Then I will stop discussing it.

EMT's and volunteers will always have their place, just not in the mainstream of EMS.

R/r 911
 
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Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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I don't understand why people would bash volunteers anyways...I'm guessing at least 65% of all paid Firefighters were at some point or time a volunteer. We have to volunteer seeing as how we can't get any paid jobs yet...We all have to start somewhere, don't get mad at us for pursuing our dreams of becoming firefighters.<_<

What numbers did you pull that from? Have any real proof or just spouting numbers?

No one is denying your dream of being a fire fighter; it just has nothing to do with medicine or EMS.

R/r 911
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
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1) Can we stop the bashing of EMT's ? We are all here to do a job and we should all work together to improve ourselves as providers, no matter what level of training that we have.

2) Enough of bashing volunteers. I know that everyone says that we are keeping wages down and on and on. Did you ever think that maybe low payment rates from insurance and the greed of owners are doing that ? I am happy with my employer, they do give us fair wages.

WOW DANIEL! NOBODY has EVER had this argument here before! This thread will be GROUNDBREAKING!!!
 

reaper

Working Bum
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Reaper will always do it. I pretty much ignore all he says, and forget he's here half the time... and not just for this reason.






^_^

kidding reaps...

I resemble that remark!:ph34r:
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
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1) I agree, let's stop bashing volunteers. Let's stop as soon as the minimum requirements of the EMT is at least one year long and the starting salary is that of a LPN or we have totally removed the EMT level altogether from EMS and place them into strictly first response area. Then when we require the Paramedic at the minimum to have an degree to enter and the only level to start within EMS.

Alright Rid, I'm a bit confused. What does bashing volunteers have to do with education? Am I missing something?
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
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1) Can we stop the bashing of EMT's ? We are all here to do a job and we should all work together to improve ourselves as providers, no matter what level of training that we have.

2) Enough of bashing volunteers. I know that everyone says that we are keeping wages down and on and on. Did you ever think that maybe low payment rates from insurance and the greed of owners are doing that ? I am happy with my employer, they do give us fair wages.

Eynonqrs, I completely agree with this. I think the best way to deal with the disrespect is to just stand up to it wherever you see it. But do it in a respectful way.

There are a lot of people on here who are high and mighty, and believe that they are above everybody else. Some of it just has to be ignored. When you do feel the need to reply, do it respectfully. Maybe through this, the attitudes on this site will change.
 

EMTinNEPA

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Alright Rid, I'm a bit confused. What does bashing volunteers have to do with education? Am I missing something?

What does a low educational standard warrant in terms of wages? Not much, especially when you have so many people willing to do the job as a hobby. Now, if there were high educational standards, that would warrant better wages, but also more dedication... perhaps beyond the "hobby" level, no? Guess who the big lobbyists to keep educational standards low are? I'll give you a hint... their names rhyme with "Golunteers" and "Tirefighters".
 

Flight-LP

Forum Deputy Chief
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I can assure you these "attitudes" as you define it, will not change. There is absolutely nothing that has been said in this thread from highly educated and respected individuals that is demeaning or "high and mighty". It's called the truth, should you wish to be successful in this career, you need to have the ability to see the importance of what is being written. Throughout your EMS career, you will have preceptors and mentors that may have similar views as posted here. What are you going to do? Follow your advice and ignore them. You will not get far..................

Sorry, but the truth is sometimes harsh. Provide a sound argument with credible and verifyable statistics and then the matter can be discussed. The problem is that this very subject has been hashed out many times on this and every other EMS site out there. There are valid reasons why volunteering is problematic and why the EMT-B level is substandard for primary pre-hospital care. Do a search, read and learn. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is frustrating to us who have dedicated and sacrificed many years to improve our industry. For you to come in with no discernable experience and say we are wrong is not only ignorant by true definition, but also disrespectful as well. You've got a lot to learn, hopefully you will take the opportunity to do so.
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
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What does a low educational standard warrant in terms of wages? Not much, especially when you have so many people willing to do the job as a hobby. Now, if there were high educational standards, that would warrant better wages, but also more dedication... perhaps beyond the "hobby" level, no? Guess who the big lobbyists to keep educational standards low are? I'll give you a hint... their names rhyme with "Golunteers" and "Tirefighters".

No, I got that. I just don't see how "bashing" them (insulting, demeaning them) has any real use.
 

TransportJockey

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No, I got that. I just don't see how "bashing" them (insulting, demeaning them) has any real use.

There's not a whole lot of demeaning going on. We state our opinions and it just seems that some people on this board take offense to it
 

usafmedic45

Forum Deputy Chief
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There's not a whole lot of demeaning going on. We state our opinions and it just seems that some people on this board take offense to it
I agree with KD5QHI. A lot of the "bashing" seems to be more just criticism and people take offense without really looking at what is being said. This is coming from one of the most critical people on here, but one who supports Basic EMTs and volunteers as a vital part of our system as it exists and will exist for the foreseeable future. That said, I think those who criticize without reason or simply to make themselves look better or feel better about themselves are shooting themselves in the foot.
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
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255
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I can assure you these "attitudes" as you define it, will not change. There is absolutely nothing that has been said in this thread from highly educated and respected individuals that is demeaning or "high and mighty". It's called the truth, should you wish to be successful in this career, you need to have the ability to see the importance of what is being written. Throughout your EMS career, you will have preceptors and mentors that may have similar views as posted here. What are you going to do? Follow your advice and ignore them. You will not get far..................

Sorry, but the truth is sometimes harsh. Provide a sound argument with credible and verifyable statistics and then the matter can be discussed. The problem is that this very subject has been hashed out many times on this and every other EMS site out there. There are valid reasons why volunteering is problematic and why the EMT-B level is substandard for primary pre-hospital care. Do a search, read and learn. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is frustrating to us who have dedicated and sacrificed many years to improve our industry. For you to come in with no discernable experience and say we are wrong is not only ignorant by true definition, but also disrespectful as well. You've got a lot to learn, hopefully you will take the opportunity to do so.

I do not have any problem with improving the industry. In fact, I am for it. Everything can use improvement. I greatly admire the people (like you, Rid, Vent, and others) who are doing their best to improve the field of EMS.

Yes, the problem of volunteers is a controversial one. Am I saying that volunteers are all perfect? Not in the least. Do I think that the issue should be ignored. No.

Here is my problem. I do not see how bashing, insulting, or generally being hostile towards people solves any problems. I think it would be more productive to have debates where both people/sides are respectful. That way, people will be less bitter. If they are less bitter, they will be more open to suggestions. Agreed?

Does this mean that when I enter the field of EMS, I will completely ignore everything that is said by my preceptors and others that is said in a disrespectful way? Hell no.

I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. I am also not trying to say that you are wrong when it comes to the issue of volunteers. In fact, I agree with you. The field needs to advance, and there are many things standing in the way of this. All I am saying is that respect is a good thing.
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
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Here is my problem. I do not see how bashing, insulting, or generally being hostile towards people solves any problems. I think it would be more productive to have debates where both people/sides are respectful. That way, people will be less bitter. If they are less bitter, they will be more open to suggestions. Agreed?

Don't confuse statements of fact with bashing.
Don't confuse valid criticism with insults.
Don't confuse matter-of-fact statements with hostility.
Don't confuse disagreement with disrespect.
Don't confuse frustration about the status quo with bitterness.

Because having the above confusions results from emotional reactions to unpleasant realizations that conflict with our preferred worldview.
 
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TransportJockey

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Don't confuse statements of fact with bashing.
Don't confuse valid criticism with insults.
Don't confuse matter-of-fact statements with hostility.
Don't confuse disagreement with disrespect.
Don't confuse frustration with the status quo with bitterness.

Because having the above confusions results from emotional reactions to unpleasant realizations that conflict with our preferred worldview.

Probably the best way to put it that I've seen
 

medichopeful

Flight RN/Paramedic
1,863
255
83
Fine. I give up.
 
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