Can we stop some of these, please ?

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PotatoMedic

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Ahh... I see the issue clearer now and that it is not exactly how I thought it was. Thank you!
 

gosu4you

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What numbers did you pull that from? Have any real proof or just spouting numbers?

No one is denying your dream of being a fire fighter; it just has nothing to do with medicine or EMS.

R/r 911

Most fire departments would like paramedics before they will hire you (municiapal) at least this is how it is in southern california. And you realize that the majority of firefighters calls are medical aids right.. And no I don't have any "real" proof as to that number I was just being conservative. All I was trying to say is that being a volunteer is often something a lot of people do prior to recieving a paid position
 

Sapphyre

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Which is why a large number of the fire medics out there resent the medical calls, they got medic JUST for the fire position. If you want to be a firefighter in SoCal, without doing EMS, try the county services....
 
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eynonqrs

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Well, here is my final thoughts on this subject:

From reading some of the postings on here some medics seem like they treat their EMT partners like they are a nobody. I have worked with some of the greatest medics when I was on the road. I have learned from them, and I am a better EMT because of that. I have had my EMT for 10+ years now, and the way that they are teaching new EMT's makes me sick to my stomach. When I was in EMT school, we were taught the proper way to do treatment. Don't bash the EMT's, bash the states who are giving piss poor training. Teach them and nuture them. That is all - goodnight.
 

CAOX3

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Im actually quite tired from holding EMS back, poisoning the minds of new EMTs, writing protocols and lobbying for expanded scopes at the EMT level. :rolleyes:

Yes I as an EMT am sorry for the state of EMS. Accept my heartfelt apologies. :rolleyes:
 

timmy84

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That's part of the system that's broken. No where else in healthcare will you find that you have to do a stepped system. I personally think the requirement of field experience before you can apply to paramedic school is asinine. I've seen basics that have been on a truck for years that flunk out of medic school. And my classes top student has never been on a truck except for internships

Last I checked MD's have to step up... College... 2 years pre-clinical med school... 2 years clinical med school... 1 year internship... X years in residency.

PA schools require patient care experience before application.

Honestly I could care less, and really I think the requirement is to reduce the number of people who take up a spot in P schools. I can only imagine how many people have taken the basic class with high ambitions only to be disillusioned with the IFT job they get after graduating. I know the transport services around here pretty have high turn around. Not saying that is a good thing, just a way to keep more spots open for those who want to proceed in EMS
 

rhan101277

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1) I agree, let's stop bashing volunteers. Let's stop as soon as the minimum requirements of the EMT is at least one year long and the starting salary is that of a LPN or we have totally removed the EMT level altogether from EMS and place them into strictly first response area. Then when we require the Paramedic at the minimum to have an degree to enter and the only level to start within EMS.

Will you still support as a volunteer these amendments and agree to participate in making it so? Then I will stop discussing it.

EMT's and volunteers will always have their place, just not in the mainstream of EMS.

R/r 911

In the state of Georgia you can't find work as a EMT-B, you have to be a Intermediate or Paramedic to get work. I don't know if other states will follow suit.
 

Ridryder911

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Last I checked MD's have to step up... College... 2 years pre-clinical med school... 2 years clinical med school... 1 year internship... X years in residency.

PA schools require patient care experience before application.

Honestly I could care less, and really I think the requirement is to reduce the number of people who take up a spot in P schools. I can only imagine how many people have taken the basic class with high ambitions only to be disillusioned with the IFT job they get after graduating. I know the transport services around here pretty have high turn around. Not saying that is a good thing, just a way to keep more spots open for those who want to proceed in EMS

???

Not all PA schools require patient care experience and as well how is attending one program as in medical school a step or divisional?

Trust me as an educator there is no thought of having EMT to reduce those to enter Paramedic school. I personally feel the majority of educators would gladly abolish the Basic level altogether and place into first responder program for non-medical personnel. Possibly develop a transfer tech program but it should not be part or associated with Paramedic or EMS, as it is a total different position.

Paramedic programs should have a difficult screening process enough to help eliminate anyone wanting to enter, then weed out the weak during the course itself. If and when we do that, our profession will see those that want to perform medical care and actually desire to function in EMS.

R/r 911
 

timmy84

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???

Not all PA schools require patient care experience and as well how is attending one program as in medical school a step or divisional?

Trust me as an educator there is no thought of having EMT to reduce those to enter Paramedic school. I personally feel the majority of educators would gladly abolish the Basic level altogether and place into first responder program for non-medical personnel. Possibly develop a transfer tech program but it should not be part or associated with Paramedic or EMS, as it is a total different position.

Paramedic programs should have a difficult screening process enough to help eliminate anyone wanting to enter, then weed out the weak during the course itself. If and when we do that, our profession will see those that want to perform medical care and actually desire to function in EMS.

R/r 911

I like the transfer tech idea. As far as PA's, I know the PA programs in my area required patient care contact to apply (Midwestern University, Rosalind Franklin (my mom's alma mater), and Malcolm X College). Even if they do not require experience, they all require a degree (or at the very least 90 credit hours) from an accredited school before admission.

As far as for now... the state of Indiana required EMT-B to sit for EMT-P certification. Therefore I will take the Basic class, work the minimum hours required, then go to paramedic school.
 

FR Wrath

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Some of these things that I'm reading are rediculous. I used to love coming to this website and reading all of the info available here. But lately, it seems as though people do not appreciate basics at all. Yes, I am a basic. And I am only a basic because I currently cannot afford to attend the Paramedic program. No, I realize that I have no where near enough training and insight as the medics do. I understand that. But I am willing to learn and soak up as much as I possibly can.

Were you all born paramedics? No! You had to start somewhere. You all were inexperienced at some point. Us basics are not worthless, we just know less than you do at the moment. But give us time, and we will prove it. I didn't join this as a "hobby" job. I plan on doing EMS for as long as my body and God will allow. I'm sorry if this came across as harsh, but this is how I feel. I totally expect to be flamed, because certain people on here believe they are the proverbial "stuff".
 
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Shishkabob

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Let's quit thinking of basic as a step-up to Paramedic.


Let's think of it as a pre-req class :p
 

CAOX3

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Some of these things that I'm reading are rediculous. I used to love coming to this website and reading all of the info available here. But lately, it seems as though people do not appreciate basics at all. Yes, I am a basic. And I am only a basic because I currently cannot afford to attend the Paramedic program. No, I realize that I have no where near enough training and insight as the medics do. I understand that. But I am willing to learn and soak up as much as I possibly can.

Were you all born paramedics? No! You had to start somewhere. You all were inexperienced at some point. Us basics are not worthless, we just know less than you do at the moment. But give us time, and we will prove it. I didn't join this as a "hobby" job. I plan on doing EMS for as long as my body and God will allow. I'm sorry if this came across as harsh, but this is how I feel. I totally expect to be flamed, because certain people on here believe they are the proverbial "stuff".

Unbelievable, your apologizing for being an EMT, trying to justify your existence and better yet your revealing your personal reasons for doing so, as if you owe anyone here an explanation for your decisions.
 

rescue99

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There is no BLS? What? Bologna and Liverwurst Sammiches are off the menu?

More seriously, I went straight from Basic to Medic and loved every minute of the horror. I was different though. I had had a great deal of medical field exposure already and, I was older. IMO, there should be 3 years of documented road experience required for all medic students along with A/P and Med Term at a minimum. These pre-reqs will help a student be successful in a tough Medic program today. The caring part is completely student dependent. No one can "make" one person care about another. I wish we could weed out those who have no business being in the field.

Then there is the EMS schools themselves. Accreditation is all fine and well but, finding an accredited program with good instructors can be a problem sometimes. As a student, be demanding of your money's worth...use appropriate school policy to get it if need be! Know the policies and the expectations of both you and your instructor. Expect to work as hard as you want the instructor to and then some! I myself took an accredited (the first in MI.) Medic program but, had to do some Teacher shopping to get a good quality instructor. Not all that glitters is gold in other words. Colleges and accreditation mean diddly if the instructor isn't worthy of the title! Basic EMT's are among our most valuable public service folks out there. Because of the terrible attitudes toward BLS, I lean toward teaching Basics. Not only is BLS valuable, it is the financial backbone of all private services as well as the backbone of a good Medic.
 

VentMedic

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Basic EMT's are among our most valuable public service folks out there. Because of the terrible attitudes toward BLS, I lean toward teaching Basics. Not only is BLS valuable, it is the financial backbone of all private services as well as the backbone of a good Medic.

Spoken like someone who might own a share in an ambulance service.

Of course cheap labor is valued as well as plentiful.

But, the EMT-B (U.S.) is even inappropriate for "BLS" IFT transport because those patients are medical and usually don't need first-aid.

Hospitals do not base their reimbursement schedules with insurances by using nursing assistants. The worth of an EMS provider should not be based on an EMT.

I also read the arguments that Michigan was presenting against accreditation. Some were borderline shameful and just plain laziness.
 
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Ridryder911

EMS Guru
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There is no BLS? What? Bologna and Liverwurst Sammiches are off the menu?

More seriously, I went straight from Basic to Medic and loved every minute of the horror. I was different though. I had had a great deal of medical field exposure already and, I was older. IMO, there should be 3 years of documented road experience required for all medic students along with A/P and Med Term at a minimum. These pre-reqs will help a student be successful in a tough Medic program today. The caring part is completely student dependent. No one can "make" one person care about another. I wish we could weed out those who have no business being in the field.

Then there is the EMS schools themselves. Accreditation is all fine and well but, finding an accredited program with good instructors can be a problem sometimes. As a student, be demanding of your money's worth...use appropriate school policy to get it if need be! Know the policies and the expectations of both you and your instructor. Expect to work as hard as you want the instructor to and then some! I myself took an accredited (the first in MI.) Medic program but, had to do some Teacher shopping to get a good quality instructor. Not all that glitters is gold in other words. Colleges and accreditation mean diddly if the instructor isn't worthy of the title! Basic EMT's are among our most valuable public service folks out there. Because of the terrible attitudes toward BLS, I lean toward teaching Basics. Not only is BLS valuable, it is the financial backbone of all private services as well as the backbone of a good Medic.

Blah... blah.. blah... let's back that up with some facts, shall we? No where except EMS is BLS vs. ALS emphasized, know why? Guess? Because medicine is medicine: there is no ___line___ dividing care.. Oh wait, that's right either you are educated before you enter (with a degree) or (gasp!) you don't get to enter!

Accreditation means diddly.. oh yeah, that uncomplicated stuff like credibility, mandated clinical hours and patient contacts, program administrators with a formal degree ..

Your right, teachers should be the wording. Even little Johnny & Susie gets a more educated teacher in kindergarten than a majority of Paramedic students.. don't you think that is kinda embarrassing? I agree add more serious courses such as Anatomy & Physiology for entry level but experience driving an EMS unit? .. seriously. Basic skills are just that ... basic. Place more time in clinical skills in the Paramedic program and remove the "field experience" b.s. Just a way to pick up bad habits.

Now, demonstrate to me how "BLS is the financial backbone"? Except for cheap labor and expandable employees, that's how. If you are a IFT service (which is not EMS) every patient should be evaluated by a Paramedic, no exceptions. Patients deserve at least more than a first aider evaluate them.

R/r 911
 

fma08

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Not only is BLS valuable, it is the financial backbone of all private services as well as the backbone of a good Medic.

Last I heard, the service I used to work for (a private service) dumped the BLS trucks and made them ALS. Doesn't seem like a backbone there.
 
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eynonqrs

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First off, were you not EMT's before you became medics ? I can't believe some of the inflated heads on here. I can name countless courses that I have taken that relate to the EMS field. Before you people open you mouths, you should have a good conversation with us EMT-B's, we are not all stupid as you think. I can tell you right now, I seen EMT's, Medics, RN's, MD's, etc... that I would not trust my dog with, never alone anyone's life. Some of you want to have all paramedic trucks, for what ? So you can start iv's on people with stubbed toes ? I have been in this field for 17+ years now, and so is a lot of people that I work with and volunteer with. So don't call us stupid. When I got my first job on a private service I was hired because my volunteer company has a high respect for the people and the quality of care that we give. I am done with this conversation. Oh by the way, good luck trying to get a paid service to run all paramedics, if you are complaining that your wages are low.
 

ffemt8978

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First off, were you not EMT's before you became medics ? I can't believe some of the inflated heads on here. I can name countless courses that I have taken that relate to the EMS field. Before you people open you mouths, you should have a good conversation with us EMT-B's, we are not all stupid as you think. I can tell you right now, I seen EMT's, Medics, RN's, MD's, etc... that I would not trust my dog with, never alone anyone's life. Some of you want to have all paramedic trucks, for what ? So you can start iv's on people with stubbed toes ? I have been in this field for 17+ years now, and so is a lot of people that I work with and volunteer with. So don't call us stupid. When I got my first job on a private service I was hired because my volunteer company has a high respect for the people and the quality of care that we give. I am done with this conversation. Oh by the way, good luck trying to get a paid service to run all paramedics, if you are complaining that your wages are low.

First of all, not everyone was an EMT before they became a paramedic...Rid comes to mind as one example.

Secondly, nobody said basics were stupid in this thread...until you.

Thirdly, your post would be a lot easier to read if you broke it up into paragraphs.
 
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