Ambulance stopped at border - Canada

Rattletrap

Rattletrap

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http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=81157&sc=89

This is a sore subject with me as my partner was driving and we were felony type stopped on way to a call at a NH. Almost ended up in a fight with police as they did not understand we were not part of 911 dispatch for NH calls.

If I were driving it would have been "let the chase begin"
 
I sit here, cursor flashing in the Quick Reply box cause I'm not sure how I feel about this.

If I read it correctly, the driver of the ambulance had to go into an office to confirm his identification. To me, that is too far. Taking one minute to confirm the occupants of the vehicle, that is okay.
 
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My bad. Haven't had much caffeine today.

NH - Nursing Homes
 
I didn't read the whole article, but I have to side with the border patrol or customs agents. It seems to me that there would be some sort of system involved where the transporting agencies to call ahead and warn the border patrol. In this day and age of terrorist and political frustration with our nations unwillingness to secure our borders, I have to believe that there is or should be a procedure for stuff like this. Simply having the lights and sirens activated to cross the border is insufficient, because by itself, it is unverifiable.

I also feel like the life of one person does not outweigh the security and protection of all the other people in the country who could be affected by someone trying to smuggle something into or out of the country. If you've worked in EMS for any length of time, you know that ambulances have been considered an item a terrorist might try to commandeer for use. Our agency gets reminders every now and then reminding us to make sure our rigs are locked and secured.
 
Very unfortunate, thankfully transfer of appropriate care was accomplished without negative outcomes. Perhaps air transportation should have been considered. If a hospital does not have basic angioplasty capabilities, then EMS should take that into consideration before taking a patient to that facility. Had this pt. been flown, then he could have gone straight to Detroit without delay. Maybe a thought for future responses.

As far as the original post goes, if you are responding to a nursing home and are not part of the public contracted 911 service, then you may have to explain to law enforcement why you are running hot. And they have every right to ask. It would not be my recommendation to argue and or fight with them. We had a private transport crew here in Houston try that once, both were arrested. If hte call at the nursing home is of dire urgency that requires an emergent response, then the local 911 service should handle it. If that is not the case, then a courtesy call to local PD dispatch would eliminate this ever happening again.

Oh, and I have yet to see any ambulance outrun a police cruiser. It would be entertaining though, smile for the camera's........
 
Asclepius said:
I didn't read the whole article, but I have to side with the border patrol or customs agents. It seems to me that there would be some sort of system involved where the transporting agencies to call ahead and warn the border patrol. In this day and age of terrorist and political frustration with our nations unwillingness to secure our borders, I have to believe that there is or should be a procedure for stuff like this. Simply having the lights and sirens activated to cross the border is insufficient, because by itself, it is unverifiable.

I also feel like the life of one person does not outweigh the security and protection of all the other people in the country who could be affected by someone trying to smuggle something into or out of the country. If you've worked in EMS for any length of time, you know that ambulances have been considered an item a terrorist might try to commandeer for use. Our agency gets reminders every now and then reminding us to make sure our rigs are locked and secured.
Click to expand...

An absolutely valid point. Looking at the benefit of a nation definately outweighes an outcome of one individual.
 
Asclepius said:
If you've worked in EMS for any length of time, you know that ambulances have been considered an item a terrorist might try to commandeer for use. Our agency gets reminders every now and then reminding us to make sure our rigs are locked and secured.
Click to expand...

I am particularly sensitive to this, being involved with MDA. I understand that there used to be weekly attempts for Palestinian ambulances to cross the green line through checkpoints into Israel either "empty", that is, with no patient, but full of explosives, or "full" with a mock patient, and explosives packed everywhere not obviously visible. There is a video on youtube of a robot removing a cot mattress filled with explosives.
Since these attempts have started, the Israeli army has a policy of not allowing Palestinian ambulances through checkpoints, rather transferring care to an MDA ambulance at the checkpoint. There have been a few high-profile transfers, including an infant being transported for an operation only possible in an Israeli hospital.
Even in and around Tel-Aviv, whenever we enter a hospital complex, we must stop, and are quickly "searched". That is, the security guard makes sure they know the driver (despite the fact there are dozens of security guards and dozens of drivers, we are making daily trips, and each gets to know the other. The guard opens the side door of the ambulance, makes sure there is a patient, and checks to see that all other MDA staff are in proper uniform. This check only takes a few seconds, and is done several times a day, every time we enter a hospital, but is very necessary to Israeli security. Once we reach the ambulance entrance, there is another guard, who checks to see that we indeed have a patient, and that we are locking our ambulances.

I think in this post 9/11 world the US has every right to be anal about its borders, and based on the assumption that there is a written policy in place that was not initiated by the ambulance, they are the only to blame. I understand the media's interest in blowing one case out of proportion, but as others have said, USCBP is sacrificing the good of one for the safety of many.
 
Flight-LP said:
Oh, and I have yet to see any ambulance outrun a police cruiser. It would be entertaining though, smile for the camera's........
Click to expand...

A chase does not have to be high speed. In most states, unless there is reckless driving by the driver, the police must follow to the scene or the hospital and may not stop you as long as you are acting due regard.
 
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Asclepius said:
I didn't read the whole article, but I have to side with the border patrol or customs agents. It seems to me that there would be some sort of system involved where the transporting agencies to call ahead and warn the border patrol. In this day and age of terrorist and political frustration with our nations unwillingness to secure our borders, I have to believe that there is or should be a procedure for stuff like this. Simply having the lights and sirens activated to cross the border is insufficient, because by itself, it is unverifiable.

I also feel like the life of one person does not outweigh the security and protection of all the other people in the country who could be affected by someone trying to smuggle something into or out of the country. If you've worked in EMS for any length of time, you know that ambulances have been considered an item a terrorist might try to commandeer for use. Our agency gets reminders every now and then reminding us to make sure our rigs are locked and secured.
Click to expand...

Why are you looking at the big picture? Why are you using logic? That's my job, quit it!
 
emt-student said:
I am particularly sensitive to this, being involved with MDA. I understand that there used to be weekly attempts for Palestinian ambulances to cross the green line through checkpoints into Israel either "empty", that is, with no patient, but full of explosives, or "full" with a mock patient, and explosives packed everywhere not obviously visible. There is a video on youtube of a robot removing a cot mattress filled with explosives.
Since these attempts have started, the Israeli army has a policy of not allowing Palestinian ambulances through checkpoints, rather transferring care to an MDA ambulance at the checkpoint. There have been a few high-profile transfers, including an infant being transported for an operation only possible in an Israeli hospital.
Even in and around Tel-Aviv, whenever we enter a hospital complex, we must stop, and are quickly "searched". That is, the security guard makes sure they know the driver (despite the fact there are dozens of security guards and dozens of drivers, we are making daily trips, and each gets to know the other. The guard opens the side door of the ambulance, makes sure there is a patient, and checks to see that all other MDA staff are in proper uniform. This check only takes a few seconds, and is done several times a day, every time we enter a hospital, but is very necessary to Israeli security. Once we reach the ambulance entrance, there is another guard, who checks to see that we indeed have a patient, and that we are locking our ambulances.

I think in this post 9/11 world the US has every right to be anal about its borders, and based on the assumption that there is a written policy in place that was not initiated by the ambulance, they are the only to blame. I understand the media's interest in blowing one case out of proportion, but as others have said, USCBP is sacrificing the good of one for the safety of many.
Click to expand...

Having lived in Israel for 2 years near the Green Line and there before and during the current intifada, I am acutely aware of this situation. Below are two videos illustrating the ambulance issue with the Palestinians and the Red Crescent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avm-9IglHTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqGjz7iJTns
 
Asclepius said:
I didn't read the whole article, but I have to side with the border patrol or customs agents. It seems to me that there would be some sort of system involved where the transporting agencies to call ahead and warn the border patrol.
Click to expand...


According to the article there is a system in place and it was ignored.
 
Which is really disturbing and frustrating.

There have been instances of Law Enforcement interferring with EMS. This is another one. Fortunately, no one died.
 
Would you say that, by and large, LEO are much more helpful to our profession than a hindrance? I have had frustrating calls when LEO called us to the scene for no reason (lots of those actually), but every time I have needed LEO to assist me in 'persuading' a patient to go to the hospital they have done so. Been in EMS for almost ten years now, and I can't recall a single time that LEO was a problem for me.
 
BossyCow said:
According to the article there is a system in place and it was ignored.
Click to expand...

Actually, from what I read, there is a system in place that was not followed. Much different than ignored. Border security is too serious to just assume that lights and sirens means a genuine emergency. There should have been a call made ahead of the ambulance and officials at the border to assure a safe crossing. Instead, taking the word of the driver just doesn't cut it these days. I'm sure the system has a better protocol than that.
 
Rattletrap said:
http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=81157&sc=89

This is a sore subject with me as my partner was driving and we were felony type stopped on way to a call at a NH. Almost ended up in a fight with police as they did not understand we were not part of 911 dispatch for NH calls.

If I were driving it would have been "let the chase begin"
Click to expand...

Are you saying that you were not on a 911 emergency call but were stopped? Why were you stopped? And what makes you think driving to a non emergency gives you the authority to not stop for the police? I'm sure there is more to your story.
 
jmaccauley said:
Are you saying that you were not on a 911 emergency call but were stopped? Why were you stopped? And what makes you think driving to a non emergency gives you the authority to not stop for the police? I'm sure there is more to your story.
Click to expand...
He didn't say he wasn't going to an emergency; he just implied he wasn't dispatched by 911. Not all emergency calls are dispatched by the municipality. Private ambulance companies also run emergency calls; they are called directly, not though 911.
 
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