Ambulance service to charge more for obese patients

daedalus

Forum Deputy Chief
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A story:

Hey Mr. Jones, we notice that after your MI 4 years ago, you ate McDonalds everyday since because you did not want to change your habits. When the doctor put you on ASA, Plavix, and Atenolol, and told you that Walmart could fill these scripts for only a few bucks each, you whined and demanded that we give you your prescriptions for you. After all, we wouldn't want you to die, right? That is what you said to us, to make us feel guilty. Well, you spent those few bucks, but not on your meds. You bought cigarettes so you could continue your smoking habits. Than, we offered you free smoking cessation classes and even offered to buy you nicotine gum/patches so that you could afford your prescriptions. But you still refused, stating you had no money for your meds and went on to buy a new car. Well, now you are at the ER with shortness of breath because you are having another MI that could have been prevent had you listened to us, and you have no insurance. You want the hospital to foot the bill for your bad decisions? After all, your just going to throw away the hospital bill when it comes and keep on buying ciggs and fast food and beer, because the hospital cannot do a damn thing about it can they? Plus, doctors and hospitals are rich! Anyways, we gladly accept you into the ER because of EMTLA, and the taxpayers will foot the bill along with the hospital. You end up bed ridden. Now, a private ambulance brings you home, and than a county ambulance picks you up and drives you to the doctor's office free of charge, because we are here to hold your hand. The taxpayers will pay for the ride, because you need help, dont you? When you get to the office, you demand that the government foot the bill for your meds again. And than the ambulance takes you back home, free of course. We would not want you to have to pay for the ambulance that picks you up because you ignored your health, right? That would inconvenience you. How dare we. Hey, the taxpayers can help again. Your depressed, angry at everyone, your family doesn't like seeing you, your fat, and you cost society money. You survive off of government handouts and foodstamps and live in a subsidized apartment (all of which are payed for by, you guessed it, tax payers). You refuse to get a job.

Hey, get up and walk a mile a day, toss out your ciggs (we will help you do that), eat a little healthier, and spend the money you save on your meds. You will feel happier and healthier, have more energy, people will want to be around you. Than you can get a job and start feeling productive again. Your self confidence will go up and your debt will go down, along with your waist size. Hey, you might even live longer to see your grand children grow up.

This is what I want to say to people.
 

imurphy

Forum Captain
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Just on the origional point. I totally agree with the price hike.

Last week, 650 lbs, took 3 (yes that's right *3*) units out of service to bring someone in. Which also cost 1.5 hours overtime for each of the 6 people we needed.

Also take into account we had to remove a bar from a double door to get them through and the cost of the mind-bleach I need to get certain images and, lets face it, smells out of my memory.

Oh, and her teenage daughter? Well you'd think after seeing the effort it takes to get her mother around she'd be rail thin? Nope. I'd estimate 300lbs if she was 3lbs.

Oh, and of course, no job and all of course on my tax dollars.
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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As I just had stated, and you missed, all people begin with the exact same chance to get healthcare--

Finding a job that offers it.


Many employers do, even small "teenager" jobs. Blockbuster offered it. Kroger offered it. It's not just career jobs that give benefits. Yes, not all employers do, but if more people try for the "better" places, the other companies will have to up their benefits as well to compete for competent employees. All people win.

What about those who work in jobs that don't provide health care? SOMEONE has to do those jobs. What if they are part time? Not all jobs offer insurance to part time employees. Actually, all the companies I've worked for, don't.

I didn't miss it, I just think that's a ridiculous answer.
 
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Sasha

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Hey, get up and walk a mile a day, toss out your ciggs (we will help you do that), eat a little healthier, and spend the money you save on your meds. You will feel happier and healthier, have more energy, people will want to be around you. Than you can get a job and start feeling productive again. Your self confidence will go up and your debt will go down, along with your waist size. Hey, you might even live longer to see your grand children grow up.

Who are you to judge their choices? I bet you do things that people wouldn't agree with or that are bad for your health.
 

medic417

The Truth Provider
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Yet, when you are presented at the ER with a life threatning injury or illness, have no insurance and the reason for the visit is your own doing, they cannot turn you away, can they? Doesn't that make it your right to recieve health care?

They only have to stabilize immediate life threats. If you go in with a mild fever they do not have to give you Tylenol. So only very limited actual medical care available.
 

HotelCo

Forum Deputy Chief
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They only have to stabilize immediate life threats. If you go in with a mild fever they do not have to give you Tylenol. So only very limited actual medical care available.

I've never seen an ER doctor withhold treatment for someone that doesn't have insurance. Around here, most will treat them fully. Good for them.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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What about those who work in jobs that don't provide health care? SOMEONE has to do those jobs. What if they are part time? Not all jobs offer insurance to part time employees. Actually, all the companies I've worked for, don't.

I didn't miss it, I just think that's a ridiculous answer.

I answered that question before you even asked it.


The answer is again;

Everyone can go for the jobs that offer them. They are quite numerous, and every job I've had since I was 15, offered healthcare. TO A TEEN. Including the paintball field I ref'd at for a year.

The best way to get reform is to get it in the workplace. Your job doesn't offer benefits? Find one that does. As soon as more people do that, jobs will have to compete to keep employees.


Simple economics, failed by a vast majority of people.
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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They only have to stabilize immediate life threats. If you go in with a mild fever they do not have to give you Tylenol. So only very limited actual medical care available.

I keep hearing that, never seen it. The hospitals I did clinicals at/am employed by will, but they also have assistance programs.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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I've never seen an ER doctor withhold treatment for someone that doesn't have insurance. Around here, most will treat them fully. Good for them.

Required =/= chosen.

They are only REQUIRED to sustain life. They are not required to go beyond that. If they do, it's their choice and not the law.
 

medic417

The Truth Provider
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I've never seen an ER doctor withhold treatment for someone that doesn't have insurance. Around here, most will treat them fully. Good for them.

I have, I have even seen them tell a non emergent patient that they would have to pay up front to be treated. But most still treat and the hospital just files it as a loss on taxes.
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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I answered that question before you even asked it.


The answer is again;

Everyone can go for the jobs that offer them. They are quite numerous, and every job I've had since I was 15, offered healthcare. TO A TEEN. Including the paintball field I ref'd at for a year.

The best way to get reform is to get it in the workplace. Your job doesn't offer benefits? Find one that does. As soon as more people do that, jobs will have to compete to keep employees.


Simple economics, failed by a vast majority of people.


What about those who can't change jobs?? Who will work the essential jobs that don't offer health insurance?? What about part time employees?
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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What about those who can't change jobs??

What about those that can't change jobs? Why can't they change them?

Who will work the essential jobs that don't offer health insurance??
The same people that do them now-- those who would rather take the lower job then bettering themselves to get a better job.

What about part time employees?
What about part time employees? Get a full time job.
 

Sasha

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What about those that can't change jobs? Why can't they change them?


The same people that do them now-- those who would rather take the lower job then bettering themselves to get a better job.


What about part time employees? Get a full time job.

What about students who can't hold a full time job because they are too busy trying to better themselves and without it their schoolwork would suffer?

Why can't they change jobs? Maybe they'll have to take a pay cut? Maybe they can't take the risk with a family to support?

What about children who'se parents don't have health care on them?

Your "simple easy answer to all life's problems" is not simple nor easy.
 
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daedalus

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The only reason doctors are spending so much on tests and treatments for the uninsured in ERs when they do not have to is because they are afraid of getting sued, which is a whole other topic of itself.

If doctors were not afraid of getting sued, healthcare costs would go down.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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What about students who can't hold a full time job because they are too busy trying to better themselves and without it their schoolwork would suffer?
It really IS that easy to answer though. Yes, there are different circumstances, but doesn't change the equation, and doesn't change the answer.

1,000 kids, tell them to do 1+1. Same equation, different levels of difficulty for each person, but same correct answer.



You're talking about students not being able to work and go to school full time. Millions have done it. I've done it. You've done it. It's not impossible.

Hell, if my sister can go to law school, AND work full time, anyone can. (She's weird)


Why can't they change jobs? Maybe they'll have to take a pay cut? Maybe they can't take the risk with a family to support?

I'm lost. They can't leave a job, that offers no benefits, for one that offers benefits such as health insurance, because it will be a pay cut? It's called trade-offs.

Health... or deluxe cable?


What about children who'se parents don't have health care on them?
Again, get a job that offers it. Any decent employers that offers benefits, extend it to immediate family.
 

Sasha

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You're talking about students not being able to work and go to school full time. Millions have done it. I've done it. You've done it. It's not impossible.

Hell, if my sister can go to law school, AND work full time, anyone can. (She's weird)

Doesn't mean it's possible for everyone because you or your sister could.



I'm lost. They can't leave a job, that offers no benefits, for one that offers benefits such as health insurance, because it will be a pay cut? It's called trade-offs.

Health... or deluxe cable?

Hmmm.. What if they have no cable?? Health or a mother and/or father and three children eat, maintain a roof over their head? Not everyone has luxuries like cable and some people DO struggle to get by.


Again, get a job that offers it. Any decent employers that offers benefits, extend it to immediate family.

What if the parents don't work at a job that offers health insurance and can't change jobs because that will mean they loose the roof over their head, they don't fit into the equiation to qualify for medicaid or welfare? What about the children then?
 

Shishkabob

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No matter what is said, you will come up with a 'what ifs', and you will probably 'what if' this all night. Fact is, the answer is that simple. How people GET to the answer is different, but it doesn't change the answer at all.



If you want insurance, get a job that offers it. If your job doesn't, find one that does.

Do NOT expect me, or anyone else, who work for our money, to flip the bill because (generic)you are simply to lazy to find your own way of doing it. Do not demand it of us. Do not proclaim it as a right.



Yes, there are exceptions. Yes, there are changes. Yes, there are different circumstances. But many people that don't have it can make changes to get it.
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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Instead of telling everyone to get a job, why not reform the health care system? Wow, there's a thought.

The answer is not simply "Get a job with insurance" If it were that simple, more people would have insurance, but it is NOT THAT SIMPLE.
 
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