ACLS or AMLS

ViolynEMT

ViolynEMT

Forum Chiefess
Messages
1,253
Reaction score
820
Points
113
I went back to my former school to talk to my former instructor about some of the extra classes that are offered. First of all, I am an EMT. My instructor taught us some extra material that wasn't in the book. Material that is taught in the medic classes. I also did really well in the class. (Not trying to brag. I just want to get advice with all the info out there) He feels that I would do well taking either the ACLS class or the AMLS class. I would really like the AMLS myself, but I'm not sure if I should try to tackle either one as an EMT. Suggestions?
 
I guess I don't see much of a point in you taking ACLS as a basic. It's an algorithmically focused class on arrhythmia treatment and main focus on cardiac arrest mega codes.

Do know rhythms? What is your goal in having ACLS if you're unable to do any of the treatment plans?
 
I've been getting tutored on my own in the interpretation of ECG's. I don't really have a specific goal other than wanting to learn as much as possible. Medic school is going to be really difficult for me, if not impossible, in the foreseeable future. I'm trying to at least learn what I can to be the best EMT I possibly can and be a damned good partner for the medics I'll be working with. AMLS seems more interesting to me. Just not sure if I'd be biting off more than I can chew.
 
You'd probably benefit more from AMLS. ACLS is really nothing more than a course to teach people standardized algorithms with information they should already know. There's not much you'll walk away with.
 
I don't know what AMLS is, but I never think more training and knowledge is a bad thing. If you're going to do an ACLS course, make sure you know your rhythms and learn the ACLS drugs. Beyond that the course is really just following the algorithms.
 
I don't know about the AMLS class, but I wouldn't bother with either right now. yoy can download/memorize algorithms for free, they are probly in your protocols already anyways.

Depending on your prior education, you would be better served in the long run with foundation courses like a&p, pathophys, microbio etc.

As far as being a good partner for your medic, keep your eyes and ears open, you can't learn that in a classroom.
 
I agree that at this stage, learning basic physiology & pathophysiology is more valuable than learning protocols, which is all ACLS teaches and really all AMLS boils down to, as well. As you progress in your career, you'll be expected to memorize more and more protocol-type stuff, and you'll have less time to focus on the basics. For now I'd spend time getting a good foundation.

On the other hand, a course like AMLS can maybe give you an outline of what physiology to study. Taking it isn't a bad idea if you use it as a template for what stuff you need to read more background on.

ACLS is really completely useless without first knowing how to read EKG's (many would say it's useless PERIOD....but i digress), and there are lots of resources online to help you do that.

If I were in your shoes and wanting to learn more, I'd take a 2-semester Anatomy & Physiology course if at all possible.
 
My overall opinion:
I feel like taking an ACLS class when you don't really know how to interpret EKGs is a bad thing. I think it presents an illusion to others that you hold that knowledge and in turn makes you feel like you know what you're doing when in reality you don't.

Not to knock you personally, but if you don't have the foundational knowledge of interpreting EKGs and using proper treatment modalities in a step by step way to accurately determine a rhythm/treatment then advanced cardiovascular life support should not be an option or a "badge" or "certification" available to you.

Anyone can play the memory game and learn to recognize a rhythm on a piece of paper and match it up. However, we all know that those lines be lookin funky out there in the field and very rarely is it a textbook rhythm. It is of paramount importance that an advanced provider be able to determine, within a reasonable degree of certainty, a rhythm based on foundational knowledge, not the matching game.

Additionally, there's the old adage that you can show an EKG to 12 cardiologist and get 12 different answers. True, but for our purposes, we need quick interpretation for emergent intervention.

My opinion for you personally:
Taking classes is not usually a bad thing, and any knowledge in your back pocket is a good thing. But I would advise you taking a basic EKG and 12 lead class or A&P instead of an ACLS or AMLS class. It is a logical progression for your EMS career. Moreover, you need to know not just what/how to perform an intervention but why. And atop of the why is what adverse reactions could you cause by doing so. There is a bigger picture than just learning an algorithm, and that is part of the problem with EMS as a whole and why most of us gripe about increasing the education standards in our specialty. Don't be part of the problem ;). I know you are eager to learn, and that is excellent. In time you will.
 
The benefit to taking ACLS as a basic would be that you'd be able to anticipate what your partner is going to want next. Sure you can't push the amiodarone or procanamide or mag but you can anticipate that the medic will want to and pull them out of the bag with the appropriate syringes to assist them.

With that said I'll echo that a&p, patho or pharm would be best. I don't think basics can actually receive an ACLS card but you can audit the course just like medics can audit ATLS.
 
SandpitMedic said:
My overall opinion:
I feel like taking an ACLS class when you don't really know how to interpret EKGs is a bad thing. I think it presents an illusion to others that you hold that knowledge and in turn makes you feel like you know what you're doing when in reality you don't.

Not to knock you personally, but if you don't have the foundational knowledge of interpreting EKGs and using proper treatment modalities in a step by step way to accurately determine a rhythm/treatment then advanced cardiovascular life support should not be an option or a "badge" or "certification" available to you.

Anyone can play the memory game and learn to recognize a rhythm on a piece of paper and match it up. However, we all know that those lines be lookin funky out there in the field and very rarely is it a textbook rhythm. It is of paramount importance that an advanced provider be able to determine, within a reasonable degree of certainty, a rhythm based on foundational knowledge, not the matching game.

Additionally, there's the old adage that you can show an EKG to 12 cardiologist and get 12 different answers. True, but for our purposes, we need quick interpretation for emergent intervention.

My opinion for you personally:
Taking classes is not usually a bad thing, and any knowledge in your back pocket is a good thing. But I would advise you taking a basic EKG and 12 lead class or A&P instead of an ACLS or AMLS class. It is a logical progression for your EMS career. Moreover, you need to know not just what/how to perform an intervention but why. And atop of the why is what adverse reactions could you cause by doing so. There is a bigger picture than just learning an algorithm, and that is part of the problem with EMS as a whole and why most of us gripe about increasing the education standards in our specialty. Don't be part of the problem ;). I know you are eager to learn, and that is excellent. In time you will.
Click to expand...

I've been getting tutored by my former instructor on interpreting EKG's and in pharm. I'm trying to learn as much on my own as I possibly can. The desire to go on to medic is very strong, but just not possible right now. I worked in a cardiopulmonary dept for a couple of years and studied at that time, also. I'm hoping that I will have at least a better than basic knowledge of interpreting EKG's before I take either of those classes. I would at least like to be able to assist more efficiently and I just have a thirst for learning. I have a Bachelor's degree in another field (as well as a Master's) Maybe I should take classes that will enable me to get another Bachelor's degree????
 
If you're willing to shell out the cash, go for it. But if you're interested in ALS , I advise you to save your money for medic school first instead of using it on "merit badge" classes that do nothing to extend your scope of practice.
Just my $0.02.
 
Also, the more foundation you have, the more those cert courses make sense and you don't actually have to LEARN it as much as prove that you can work through an algorithm...which should be easy because you understand what the algorithm is based on.

Don't be afraid to talk to nurses and docs (and PAs!) and patients to have them explain things in plain English such as indications for treatment, reasons for transfer to another facility, complications, long term prognosis etc.
 
Wouldn't take either class now, I'd wait when it's possible for you in medic school. To echo other people, continuing studying/reading on your own, and worry about these two Algorhythm certs. With that being said, I did enjoy reading the AMLS book in medic school, had helpful signs and symptoms specific to certain organ systems/body regions. That's information that wouldn't hurt to know whether your an EMT or an MD
 
ViolynEMT said:
I've been getting tutored by my former instructor on interpreting EKG's and in pharm. I'm trying to learn as much on my own as I possibly can. The desire to go on to medic is very strong, but just not possible right now. I worked in a cardiopulmonary dept for a couple of years and studied at that time, also. I'm hoping that I will have at least a better than basic knowledge of interpreting EKG's before I take either of those classes. I would at least like to be able to assist more efficiently and I just have a thirst for learning. I have a Bachelor's degree in another field (as well as a Master's) Maybe I should take classes that will enable me to get another Bachelor's degree????
Click to expand...
You say medic school isn't an option yet you would consider getting another Bachelor's degree? Hmmmmmm.
 
jwk said:
You say medic school isn't an option yet you would consider getting another Bachelor's degree? Hmmmmmm.
Click to expand...

That would be a lot less demanding than going to a medic school that requires your near full attention and suggests that you work less than a few hours a week outside of medic school.

Some people have to make a living.
 
jwk said:
You say medic school isn't an option yet you would consider getting another Bachelor's degree? Hmmmmmm.
Click to expand...
It could be less expensive. I already have a Bachelor's. I was just wondering what other options are out there. I'm currently going through a divorce. Things could end up in my favor. Who knows. Always good to know what options are out there.
 
Thank you, everyone, for the advice and feedback. It was extremely helpful.
 
Also, AMLS class is much harder to find than ACLS. (At least around major cities).
I would certainly put AMLS before ACLS if both classes are available.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top