A different kind of question about EMS employment with 'black marks'

Phlipper

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Here's a rather different hypothetical situation. And this isn't about me or anyone I know personally, but about a situation I am somewhat familiar with thru a friend:

Suppose an EMT-B with a previous degree in a non EMS field passed his basic course with excellent scores, passed state certification first try, does part time EMS already, is well regarded by teachers and supervisors and has letters of recommendation from senior EMS staff and former employers, and is pursuing an entry-level EMS job while attending advanced training. This candidate has a pretty good driving record over the last few years, never had a DUI, and has never had felonies, etc. However, the guy had ridden with a large and somewhat notorious motorcycle club off and on over the years, and this fact was known in local law enforcement in his county and by some in EMS. Again, clean record, family man, no drugs or alcohol, but previous membership in an organization with a bad rep and has been out only a year and a half.

What's his chances getting hired with your employer? Ever heard of something similar? What was the outcome?

Just curious.
 
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citizensoldierny

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First thought is go to agencies outside your area who don't know this hypothetical person. Other thought is if you or "friend" haven't been convicted then you should be good. As most employers word the application as have you ever been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor. I don't think guilty by association counts as a disqualifier. From my own expecienceI've known some 1% types and certainly wouldn't hesitate to hire one if I could legally do it.
 
OP
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Phlipper

Forum Lieutenant
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Thanks.

I asked about his legal history and was told he had two misdemeanor convictions more than 15 years ago. And has been squeaky clean since. Never had a felony at all. He said before he started the EMT-B course he asked a few folks about this and they said it wouldn't be a big deal, as they were long ago and were minor (relatively). But since the word got out about the club membership he has gotten a bit of flack and has had it hinted that this might be an issue, in itself. We all know employers don't have to tell you why you weren't hired. So I was just curious if anyone had experienced something similar and how it worked out.
 
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firetender

Community Leader Emeritus
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Don't wear your Colors on a call!

This sounds like more of a need to have someone with some status vouch for your Buddy. Given the latest clean track record it sounds like it would be no more than a potential initial bad impression that could be overcome.
 

8jimi8

CFRN
1,792
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Here's a rather different hypothetical situation. And this isn't about me or anyone I know personally, but about a situation I am somewhat familiar with thru a friend:

Suppose an EMT-B with a previous degree in a non EMS field passed his basic course with excellent scores, passed state certification first try, does part time EMS already, is well regarded by teachers and supervisors and has letters of recommendation from senior EMS staff and former employers, and is pursuing an entry-level EMS job while attending advanced training. This candidate has a pretty good driving record over the last few years, never had a DUI, and has never had felonies, etc. However, the guy had ridden with a large and somewhat notorious motorcycle club off and on over the years, and this fact was known in local law enforcement in his county and by some in EMS. Again, clean record, family man, no drugs or alcohol, but previous membership in an organization with a bad rep and has been out only a year and a half.

What's his chances getting hired with your employer? Ever heard of something similar? What was the outcome?

Just curious.

Nothing a little volunteer work won't fix. Get a reputation as a solid provider who shows up on time and pulls his own weight and offers to help with everyone else's. If you made yourself a bad reputation, make your self a good one to get beyond it.
 

LucidResq

Forum Deputy Chief
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Aside from the "word-of-mouth" reputation, I wonder if he'd come up with a gang hit on NCIC or your state's Crime Information Center. I don't believe this information is accessible for background checks (I think it can only be used for "criminal justice" purposes), but it is absolutely possible to have no warrants, felonies, misdemeanors, etc and come up as associated with a gang when being cleared through these systems.
 

emt seeking first job

Forum Asst. Chief
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Here's a rather different hypothetical situation. And this isn't about me or anyone I know personally, but about a situation I am somewhat familiar with thru a friend:

Suppose an EMT-B with a previous degree in a non EMS field passed his basic course with excellent scores, passed state certification first try, does part time EMS already, is well regarded by teachers and supervisors and has letters of recommendation from senior EMS staff and former employers, and is pursuing an entry-level EMS job while attending advanced training. This candidate has a pretty good driving record over the last few years, never had a DUI, and has never had felonies, etc. However, the guy had ridden with a large and somewhat notorious motorcycle club off and on over the years, and this fact was known in local law enforcement in his county and by some in EMS. Again, clean record, family man, no drugs or alcohol, but previous membership in an organization with a bad rep and has been out only a year and a half.

What's his chances getting hired with your employer? Ever heard of something similar? What was the outcome?

Just curious.


I would advise this person to apply and make the best of it.

Just like anything else, a 'reputation' can not be an automatic disqualify, but it may make them 'choose another candidate.'

Actually, if this person were under 42, I would advise them to join the military for experience.
 
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Phlipper

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He said he had his car tossed a couple of times after being stopped for "exceeding safe speed" or some such, he wasn't riding the bike ... no colors, so something hit in the computer and the cop held him almost an hour both times and took everything out of his car.

Not that it matters. The word is getting around anyway so the interviewing county will probably know. And that was his only concern: how are most small county depts going to react to it. Can't change his history and the fact that word has gotten around. That's already a done deal.

Thanks for the info, all. I'll pass it on.
 

emt seeking first job

Forum Asst. Chief
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He said he had his car tossed a couple of times after being stopped for "exceeding safe speed" or some such, he wasn't riding the bike ... no colors, so something hit in the computer and the cop held him almost an hour both times and took everything out of his car.

Not that it matters. The word is getting around anyway so the interviewing county will probably know. And that was his only concern: how are most small county depts going to react to it. Can't change his history and the fact that word has gotten around. That's already a done deal.

Thanks for the info, all. I'll pass it on.


The bottom line is he will not know until he tries.

There is no way to predict what will happen.

By the way, did he consent to a search? Was he under arrest?

A cop cant 'toss' the car without a warrent...or unless an arrest is made.

Many 1%-ers know that and if 'something' hit on NCIC would just stand there and smile and say "am I under arrest, am I free to go?", and just leave, or if under arrest, just go silently and ask to call his lawyer.

Most clubs I know of have affiliate members who are lawyers who work for free or reduced rates to be associated with the club. These people know what to say and do.

Really, unless this person antogonized local cops in some way, I doubt most people would care. But then again, every situation is different.
 
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Phlipper

Forum Lieutenant
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By the way, did he consent to a search? Was he under arrest?

A cop cant 'toss' the car without a warrent...or unless an arrest is made.


Hmmm ... not true down here, actually (though it SHOULD be :D ). Having been in that situation myself a time or three, I can tell you that in most Southern states (the only places I've been stopped and tossed) any minute amount of reasonable suspicion will cover a patrol officer when tossing a car. In fact, I had a workout partner back in the 90s who was with the NCHP who said they all joke "Make the stop, toss the car, THEN worry about PC (probable cause)." I've had that happen myself no less than five times when hanging around places I probably shouldn't have been in Texas, Georgia, SC, and NC.

My friend's friend (three times removed) was stopped in two of the counties covered by the charter, in the cage (the car), with no identifying insignia (tee shirts, stickers, etc.), and both times his car was torn to pieces. Everything out of the trunk, out from under the seats, etc. and only in one of the cases he received a citation for Exceeding Safe Speed.

You just have to smile and say "Yes sir. Thank you sir. You have a nice day, too." because that's the way the game is played. He's got his thang. You got your thang. It all works out. :D
 

looker

Forum Asst. Chief
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You just have to smile and say "Yes sir. Thank you sir. You have a nice day, too." because that's the way the game is played. He's got his thang. You got your thang. It all works out. :D

Being from socal there is on way i would talk to cop like that. I also probably would be talking to a lawyer while cop trashing my car about possible suing police department.

@OP, just have you friend apply and go through interview, only way he can find out how that info will impact him.
 

citizensoldierny

Forum Captain
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Looker,
How's a lawyer going to help? Cops as noted are pretty good at making up probable cause. As for talking shop with cops , never hurts to be polite. When I was a punk *** teenager in Providence , Rhode Island I had many talks with cops, while carrying weed, weapons, being in arms reach of some serious amount of drugs etc. Last thing I wanted to do was make them p.o.'d. I wasn't a drug dealer before everyone flames me but I grew up in a neighborhood that bred them like roaches, and when your 15-16 and living in the hood you don't just turn your back on your boys because they're doing something illegal. Many of these same friends have continued to provide job security for those in the criminal justice system to this day.
 

rescue99

Forum Deputy Chief
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Here's a rather different hypothetical situation. And this isn't about me or anyone I know personally, but about a situation I am somewhat familiar with thru a friend:

Suppose an EMT-B with a previous degree in a non EMS field passed his basic course with excellent scores, passed state certification first try, does part time EMS already, is well regarded by teachers and supervisors and has letters of recommendation from senior EMS staff and former employers, and is pursuing an entry-level EMS job while attending advanced training. This candidate has a pretty good driving record over the last few years, never had a DUI, and has never had felonies, etc. However, the guy had ridden with a large and somewhat notorious motorcycle club off and on over the years, and this fact was known in local law enforcement in his county and by some in EMS. Again, clean record, family man, no drugs or alcohol, but previous membership in an organization with a bad rep and has been out only a year and a half.

What's his chances getting hired with your employer? Ever heard of something similar? What was the outcome?

Just curious.

He should have no trouble at all getting a job. People are not always judged by the company they keep. His record should speak for itself...
 

Veneficus

Forum Chief
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He said he had his car tossed a couple of times after being stopped for "exceeding safe speed" or some such, he wasn't riding the bike ... no colors, so something hit in the computer and the cop held him almost an hour both times and took everything out of his car.

Not that it matters. The word is getting around anyway so the interviewing county will probably know. And that was his only concern: how are most small county depts going to react to it. Can't change his history and the fact that word has gotten around. That's already a done deal.

First if the offenses were 15 years old, minor, and he has been clean since, I would consider contacting a lawyer about expungement or sealing the record.

Some states like my home state keep an arrest record which shows up on background checks. It shows the date of the arrest, the charges, and the disposition (reduced,dismissed,found not guilty, etc.)

Second, small towns suck for just the reason you described. Too many mouths talking about things they have little actual knowledge on. Much easier to be anonymous in the big city.

finally, in all of the services I worked for, if the state still lets you be an EMT, they wll usually give you a fair shake.
 

FLEMTP

Forum Captain
322
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Thanks.

I asked about his legal history and was told he had two misdemeanor convictions more than 15 years ago. And has been squeaky clean since. Never had a felony at all. He said before he started the EMT-B course he asked a few folks about this and they said it wouldn't be a big deal, as they were long ago and were minor (relatively). But since the word got out about the club membership he has gotten a bit of flack and has had it hinted that this might be an issue, in itself. We all know employers don't have to tell you why you weren't hired. So I was just curious if anyone had experienced something similar and how it worked out.

As far as I'd be concerned, I would say that membership in the biker gang or group constitutes a serious character issue. That's no different than a guy from the 'hood being a member of the "crypts" or the "bloods"...its a character issue, and I know as far as Law Enforcement is concerned, he could never get hired.

Unfortunately, with many EMS agencies literally hiring a warm body with an EMT cert and not caring about anything else...I'd say he has a chance of getting a job.. even though I do no agree with it whatsoever.

My main concern would be if he responded to a call where his fellow gang members are injured...would he seek out retribution?

or even.. if a rival gang was injured by his gang...would they decide to "get even" with him while he is there patching them up? or would he even actually do his job without prejudice in that situation?

Like i said.. character issues... conflict of interest... etc.

Remember.. im sure even Hitler had more than a few people that would tell you he was a "stand up guy"
 
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