Generational Gaps

[StCEMT]

I am the tail end of millennial I think. Just like with everything, nothing can be said in absolutes.

Yeah, I crashed with my folks for 2 years after college. (Damn entitled kids these days, I know). However. I paid off $45k+ in debt and built up $20k+ in assets, got my CCT, and established myself at my current job as someone they use as a resource.

I've got a ton of weird/raunchy/dark/random memes on my phone, but many come from a co-worker almost old enough to be my mom. So not really something of just my generation.

I think I have called out of 2 shifts in 3 years and been late (by minutes) to maybe 3 more. It is incredibly rare I call out or show up late. I work harder than some of the people older than me because they are either disgruntled with the company and don't care and/or have enough seniority that they don't have to care. I might be disgruntled, but I refuse to be a buddy ****er and make people work harder for my slack.

I might use my phone a lot at work in down time, but I use it to look up research, listen to podcasts, play with investments and try to learn about the finer details of it, watch cooking videos because I enjoy meal prepping and finding new things to make, etc. I'm happy to have a conversation with my partners. I know just about everyone here that has been here a while, but sometimes I don't want to talk. Sometimes me "having my head buried in my phone" is me learning about PE ratios, 3x ETF's, call/put options, tracking general market news or planning a home cooked meal for date night where we cook something fancy with some kick *** sides and dessert. Hell I have an Instagram account that is purely for following people like Eric Bauer, Andrew Fischer, and people of that nature. If you see me on there, it's 100% for the educational posts.

I might be vocal and opinionated, but that's less because of my generation and more because I was raised by people with military, LE, and farming backgrounds and not being direct and decisive just wasn't done.

I don't know. I definitely hit many of the stereotypes of my generation, but I don't think in the context older generations think when you hear the "kids these days" comments. Not that there isn't a degree of truth to those comments, but....blankets are for naps, not statements.

 

[Tigger]

Actually that's just bad policy.

It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.

 

[Tigger]

I am the tail end of millennial I think. Just like with everything, nothing can be said in absolutes.

...

I don't know. I definitely hit many of the stereotypes of my generation, but I don't think in the context older generations think when you hear the "kids these days" comments. Not that there isn't a degree of truth to those comments, but....blankets are for naps, not statements.

I feel this. I am 28 and have a successful EMS career with a diverse resume of quality employers. All I hear is "well maybe you don't do xyz but your generation sure does." Maybe they do, but of what use is such commentary? Doesn't exactly generate a lot of goodwill. And please save the "well you should take that as a compliment." That is not a compliment. Stating that someone doesn't have a poor attitude is not what they want to hear, let me be the first to tell you. If you want to compliment your people, maybe just recognize what they do right, not what they don't do wrong.

 

[SandpitMedic]

It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.

Tradition to beat up a crew for 24 hours? Tradition to put a paramedic in a wheelchair van?
Tradition to have non-compete clauses?
Tradition to require experienced medics?
Tradition to have crappy policies for employees?

No- it is corporate greed and about making the most profits...
It has nothing to do with elders, tenure, respect or millennials.

One makes a choice to be employed somewhere; if one disagrees with the policies I suppose they should seek other employment... not blame tradition.

 

[Qulevrius]

It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.

It’s bad business practices that have nothing to do with generational gaps. Only reason they exist is because people put up with it.

 

[Tigger]

Tradition to beat up a crew for 24 hours? Tradition to put a paramedic in a wheelchair van?
Tradition to have non-compete clauses?
Tradition to require experienced medics?
Tradition to have crappy policies for employees?

No- it is corporate greed and about making the most profits...
It has nothing to do with elders, tenure, respect or millennials.

One makes a choice to be employed somewhere; if one disagrees with the policies I suppose they should seek other employment... not blame tradition.

It’s bad business practices that have nothing to do with generational gaps. Only reason they exist is because people put up with it.

I work for the fire service. Corporate greed is not the motivator for our occasional stupidity. Tradition is exactly why absurd probationary processes exist, because it has always been that way. Some departments are getting with the program, mine is not.

The other stuff, I don't have an opinion on.

 

[SandpitMedic]

I work for the fire service. Corporate greed is not the motivator for our occasional stupidity. Tradition is exactly why absurd probationary processes exist, because it has always been that way. Some departments are getting with the program, mine is not.

The other stuff, I don't have an opinion on.

So what is your beef; that you have to earn your stripes in a probationary period? Most depts have probie years. Do you feel perhaps that it should be shorter, and do you perhaps consider that this day in age the instant gratification normalcy contributes to that desire?

I’m not trying to insult you, I am seriously asking you.

Is operating cost, revenue, and other financials a consideration when enacting such policies? Is there a cost saving mechanism to your departments policy that drives it (Ie: less pay, less benefits, etc)?

 

[Tigger]

So what is your beef; that you have to earn your stripes in a probationary period? Most depts have probie years. Do you feel perhaps that it should be shorter, and do you perhaps consider that this day in age the instant gratification normalcy contributes to that desire?

I’m not trying to insult you, I am seriously asking you.

I was hired into an "experienced" paramedic position. Verifiable experience as an educator along with some degree of previous admin work was a requirement. Despite this, and a position description that includes all of this and more (QA/QI, equipment, FTO duties), half the department still maintains the old fire service culture of "new guy knows nothing, therefore new guy cleans." Seems to be a bit of disconnect there. If they wanted to hire super new folks who could just be put in the corner, they could have done that much more cheaply than hiring me or the rest of the EMS staff at a very competitive rate, which is why I am quite happy to go to work everyday. They're wasting the staff's potential in name of "fire service tradition" where some light hazing goes on for a year and then you're one of the guys. I do not discount the value of earning your stripes, but 14 months for an experienced provider is a waste of time for all involved.

Let me reiterate, I am still quite happy to go to work everyday. I just sigh a bit when we don't use our people (FFs included) to their potential.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Fair enough. You’re allowed your opinion.
It’s the industry standard, I’ll concede because that’s the way it has always been. I’ll also maintain that it is somewhat beneficial to have a probie policy (while having respectful attitudes) to give one the opportunity to a.) prove themselves, and b.) build character and reputation, and c.) build interpersonal skills. New guys should not be given the keys to the castle so to speak, in my opinion (as a new guy in my new career).

If I may be so bold- not having that kind of system in place is how you wind up with exactly the type of personalities and scenarios as the younger folks have described... taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked in to new jacks sitting on the couch with their feet on the table in the ready-room. New people need to be put in their place by their more experienced peers when they fail to bring their A game to a professional environment. The world is better for it.

 

[DragonClaw]

scenarios as the younger folks have described... taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best.

Are you referring to me?

 

[DrParasite]

@Tigger you are aware that the fire service is not the only place that has a "probationary" period, right? My corporate job has one too, and you can be terminated for any reason (or for not completing our stupid internal training courses) within the given time span.

I'm completely in favor of a probationary period. Prove you can do the job. If you are an "experienced" paramedic, you should have no problem completing the requirements. You know as well as I do, that in every situation, there is the right way, the wrong way, and then there is the way the organization wants it done, and learning that way (or culture) is why you have a probationary period. BTW, everyone should clean (but the new guys generally get stuck with the bathrooms), everyone takes turn cooking, and certain events are handled as a crew.

If you can master it all in 2 months, than there you go. If it takes you 6, it takes you 6. 14 months might be a little long, but if that's what it takes for you to jump through all their hoops, than so be it. It all boils down to what they require for a probationary period, and hopefully someone is providing you with clear objective feedback during this time.

taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked in to new jacks sitting on the couch with their feet on the table in the ready-room. New people need to be put in their place by their more experienced peers when they fail to bring their A game to a professional environment. The world is better for it.

I've seen plenty of "more experienced peers" fail to bring their professional A game to a professional environment. They seem to think they don't need to, those rules are for the younger people, and don't always apply to them, because they have been there for a while. And if someone does tattle on the senior partner, the response from management is "well, that's how this person is, and we aren't going to change them." Shouldn't the rules apply to everyone equally, and everyone should be expected to bring their A game?

And those new people WILL take their lead from the senior people, so if the senior people are sitting on the couch with their feet on the table, guess what the young people will do?

 

[RocketMedic]

I’ll put my feet up when I want to. And I’ll take naps on 24s when I can. And I’m cleaning, but so is everyone else. Probably why I’m not a firefighter.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Agreed, everyone should be held to the same standard and be on their A game, but when you are new the bar is higher, then you can relax a little. That’s for good reason.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. You guys can feel how you want about it, just like I can. I’ll continue checking new guys with their feet up when there is work to be done. There’s a time and place for everything- for the record, I’m not talking about taking a nap during downtime.

DragonClaw, if I were to give you advice it would be this: when you are at work remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter. You are creating a reputation that will follow you. Be mindful.

 

[DragonClaw]

Agreed, everyone should be held to the same standard and be on their A game, but when you are new the bar is higher, then you can relax a little. That’s for good reason.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. You guys can feel how you want about it, just like I can. I’ll continue checking new guys with their feet up when there is work to be done. There’s a time and place for everything- for the record, I’m not talking about taking a nap during downtime.

DragonClaw, if I were to give you advice it would be this: when you are at work remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter. You are creating a reputation that will follow you. Be mindful.

Y'all don't like that I asked for direction?

You know what I saw?

A medic who would refuse more than 2 calls per shift. A medic who aggressively hated the job and bring a medic. A medic who left a messy truck and didn't want to clean anything. A medic who leaves the truck with barely any gas (I was driving, so yeah we stopped for gas as to not leave an empty truck for the next crew).

I heard him watching a TV show for most of the shift and when asking job related questions, was ignored or got an incomplete answer that wasn't sufficient.

If my reputation is being a young, eager EMT who actually likes the job and wants to do it well, then, whatever. The only other snip I've had with someone is the EMT-I who refused to admit you can ascultate a BP. They also bought a massage chair on shift and put it in the ambo. They also didn't believe me that the O2 bottle has a leak and got mad at me when she found it leaking.

Edit: He also made himself scarce when it was time to put up equipment. There's a storage unit we use for this particular outlying station that is his normal station. I couldn't lock it up because he disappeared.

 

[Qulevrius]

Y'all don't like that I asked for direction?

You know what I saw?

A medic who would refuse more than 2 calls per shift. A medic who aggressively hated the job and bring a medic. A medic who left a messy truck and didn't want to clean anything. A medic who leaves the truck with barely any gas (I was driving, so yeah we stopped for gas as to not leave an empty truck for the next crew).

I heard him watching a TV show for most of the shift and when asking job related questions, was ignored or got an incomplete answer that wasn't sufficient.

If my reputation is being a young, eager EMT who actually likes the job and wants to do it well, then, whatever. The only other snip I've had with someone is the EMT-I who refused to admit you can ascultate a BP. They also bought a massage chair on shift and put it in the ambo. They also didn't believe me that the O2 bottle has a leak and got mad at me when she found it leaking.

Edit: He also made himself scarce when it was time to put up equipment. There's a storage unit we use for this particular outlying station that is his normal station. I couldn't lock it up because he disappeared.

This is the kind of self righteous BS that repeatedly makes people miserable and the reason they jump jobs every few months. I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less.

If you want an inspiration from someone other than me, you could listen to Depeche Mode’s “Policy of Truth”. Specifically the verse where they say “You’ll see your problems multiply | If you continuously decide | To faithfully pursue | The policy of truth”. No one in your company wants your version of truth. You’re new to all this and your opinion is worth nothing. You keep tilting at windmills, that’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when people around you start avoiding you. Welcome to the real world.

 

[DragonClaw]

This is the kind of self righteous BS that repeatedly makes people miserable and the reason they jump jobs every few months. I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less.

If you want an inspiration from someone other than me, you could listen to Depeche Mode’s “Policy of Truth”. Specifically the verse where they say “You’ll see your problems multiply | If you continuously decide | To faithfully pursue | The policy of truth”. No one in your company wants your version of truth. You’re new to all this and your opinion is worth nothing. You keep tilting at windmills, that’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when people around you start avoiding you. Welcome to the real world.

...

 

[DragonClaw]

Because you are new you automatically Take the fall when there's any disagreement? Your opinions can't ever matter or your factual observations are irrelevant?

You talk about my self righteousness, but I don't see how you're any different.

In fact, you go White Knight for somebody that Obviously doesn't even care about the job anymore rather than somebody who's actually trying to be a good patient provider.It's pretty astounding

Edit: I'm not new to jobs. I'm new to the field. I was a manager at my old job and I didn't have any major issues with anyone. Prior to my promotion, my peers and supervisors liked me.

The old "Don't speak because you'll die alone" doesn't work on me.

 

[VentMonkey]

Lol, @DragonClaw have you ever heard the expression “you’re missing the forest for the trees”?

Your emotions seems to get the better of you every time. I think it’s more a (juvenile) character flaw than a generational gap, but for the love of God just listen for once.

 

[DragonClaw]

Lol, @DragonClaw have you ever heard the expression “you’re missing the forest for the trees”?

Your emotions seems to get the better of you every time. I think it’s more a (juvenile) character flaw than a generational gap, but for the love of God just listen for once.

I keep asking what it is y'all are so upset about and I can't a clear answer.

Because what, he's got a red patch? That makes him right?

 

[VentMonkey]

I keep asking what it is y'all are so upset about and I can't a clear answer.

Because what, he's got a red patch? That makes him right?

I took the “LOL” approach to your reply and more often than not shoot for the “cool breeze” approach. Ain’t nobody mad, lol you just don’t listen.

Hearing and listening are two different concepts, but I suppose even in 2020 some concepts still can’t be taught via the interwebs.