Fatigue

@NPO if this is who I think it is, he is one of only maybe 2-3? supes left worthwhile, and a near and dear friend of mine; perhaps even your former FTO...

We were cut from a similar cloth, only my hat goes off to him as he’s continued to “fight the good fight” while I’ve all but retired.
 
VentMonkey said:
@NPO if this is who I think it is, he is one of only maybe 2-3? supes left worthwhile, and a near and dear friend of mine; perhaps even your former FTO...

We were cut from a similar cloth, only my hat goes off to him as he’s continued to “fight the good fight” while I’ve all but retired.
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The very same. I respect him quite a lot because he wasn't afraid to stand up for his crews. Something many supes seem to have stopped doing...
 
We worked many a long nights together as double-medic partners, and have seen each other’s kids grow, taken CE’s together and picked one another’s brain about things done, or learned.

I’m glad to hear he’s listened to some of my (albeit relief supe) advice.
 
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I will admit that sometimes I hate our policy that says we can be held over EOS for 4 hours but on the flip side no matter how busy the system is once those 4 hours are up it is completely up to the crew if they want to stay running calls or go home.
 
DesertMedic66 said:
I will admit that sometimes I hate our policy that says we can be held over EOS for 4 hours but on the flip side no matter how busy the system is once those 4 hours are up it is completely up to the crew if they want to stay running calls or go home.
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They have a policy that limits how many hours you can be held over? That seems more like a blessing. I can't tell you how many times a 12 turned into an 18 or a 24.
 
My last companies policy was 2 hours....sure you could get a call an hour 59 min into that 2 hrs, but if you hot that mark, you're home free (one time had a call that went past that 2 hours ...called dispatch from the hospital as we were about to clear to say we're done...5 min later driving down the road back to station they try and give us another call, which we had to landline them (ok it was via cellphone but still lol) and e-4explain that it was well past the 2 hour mando mark and we were out of service...luckily that's all it took, but still lol)
 
I can get held over past my 12, but they can't give us anything when the 16 hour mark is approaching, 16 is the cap. Normal days aren't bad for 16, but I have done all the way up to 18 calls in that time and those days are exhausting. Definitely glad I don't have some of y'alls experiences with long hours.
 
NPO said:
They have a policy that limits how many hours you can be held over? That seems more like a blessing. I can't tell you how many times a 12 turned into an 18 or a 24.
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Yes sir. We can be utilized to run calls or held for coverage for a max of 4 hours after our EOS. After those 4 hours are up if we get a call or dispatch tries to keep us out in the system we can tell them to pound sand, even if we are the only available unit.
 
DesertMedic66 said:
Yes sir. We can be utilized to run calls or held for coverage for a max of 4 hours after our EOS. After those 4 hours are up if we get a call or dispatch tries to keep us out in the system we can tell them to pound sand, even if we are the only available unit.
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I think it's a blessing in disguise lol. Where I used to work you were fair game for any call you were closest to, no matter what.

My new employer is MUCH looser on holding over. I think it's only happened a few times in a few months. They don't necessarily send the closest unit, if the closest unit is getting off soon. And sometimes, if they have to send the closest unit that's getting off soon, they will send a second ambulance behind them to transport. The first one makes patient contact and will transport if it's time critical, otherwise they can start treatment and hand off to the second crew so they can go home on time.
 
NPO said:
At my last job I was on a 48 hour shift in a rural town. Problem is, we would get sucked into the city if levels were low.

Everyone loved their 48 hour schedule, but you worked hard and got little sleep. But sometimes it was very slow. Maybe 2-4 calls in 48. Others it was non stop.

In the month before I left I had two shifts where we got 6 hours of interupted sleep for the whole 48. During one shift we were running calls for 40 consecutive hours. This was a time when we were at critical staffing levels. Crews were calling their supervisors pleading for mercy. My supervisor put one of the crews out of service for sleep, something that is not a policy at the company. Before they got back to the station a manager (from home) vetoed the decision and put them back in service. The supervisor put them back out of service and told the manager "you can keep putting them back in service and I'll keep taking them out. No one is getting hurt on my watch, and if they do, it's on you." They never got sleep, and were held over 6 hours that day, only allowed to go home when the EMT said he had no child care coverage. He doesn't have any kids.

I don't have a problem with 24s and 48s. But it needs to be supported by responsible management.
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^this
 
Where I used to work, full time staff could be forced 6 hours due to staffing; this would bring them to the 18 hour shift length (per policy). part time or per diem staff could not be forced. if you had two part timers working on the truck, neither could be forced.

Most places I have worked (and I haven't worked at many) can and will dispatch you from minute 1 to minute 11 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds, and you are supposed to take the job. The only time I had an issue with this was 30 minutes before my shift ended, and I was given a non-emergency run from the ER to the psych hospital, when I had class in 30 minutes. Sorry, but non-emergency is not urgent, it's a scheduling issue, let the night crew handle it.

Emergency calls are a different story. I've gotten stuck on late jobs. I've been assigned late jobs as I am heading back to quarters. one time I was given a call in another truck's territory, after my shift was supposed to be over, because we were at the hospital and they were on another call, and we hadn't made it back to quarters yet. It happens.

And If I'm running calls for 40 hours straight, with no sleep, I'm going home sick. staffing is a management concern, and it's not my fault they don't hire enough staff or can't keep enough staff. The solution to critical staffing levels is to hire more staff, not run your existing staff into the ground.
 
How many people work for a CAMTS accredited service? What does your schedule look like?
 
VFlutter said:
...a CAMTS accredited service...What does your schedule look like?
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The ground nurses just went to 12’s which I believe is something along the lines of 5 on/ 5 off, then it alternates some other ways. I haven’t been out there in a minute so I haven’t paid much attention to it.

The EMT’s and paramedics are (for now) still on the schedule above, which is also ours. They’ll be moved to 12’s soon as well I’m told once there’s adequate staffing levels on the ALS side of things —//shrugs//—not my schpiel, and certainly above my pay grade (thanks God here).
 
VFlutter said:
How many people work for a CAMTS accredited service? What does your schedule look like?
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(Previous job) 24 hr shifts (0700-0700) 3 shifts on a 12 day Kelley schedule: work a day, have a day off, work a day, have 2 days off, repeat day on, day off, day on, now 4 days off in a row and rinse wash repeat. (X=on, O=off, XOXOOXOXOOOO).

Current non transporting fire service (BLS/EMR only) is similar except 9 day Kelley schedule (3 shifts, on a day, off a day, on a day, off 4, XOXOXOOOO I think I like that one better lol) City&County EMS service (I honestly don't know if they're CAMTS or not) is 12 hour shifts, 4 shifts noon to midnight and midnight to noon, on Mon Tues, off Wed Thurs, on Fri Sat Sun, off Mon Tues, on Wed Thurs, off Fri Sat Sun
 
VFlutter said:
How many people work for a CAMTS accredited service? What does your schedule look like?
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We work a 2-2-3 12 hour rotating schedule. Staggered start times from 0430 - 1230, and we have a minimum of 13 trucks on the road during the day, dropping to 8 trucks for a 4 hour period overnight. This covers a rural/urban county that's a little over 900 square miles.

Outlying counties (all rural) are covered by almost entirely 24/48 trucks. One station that runs 48/96, and a smattering of 12 hour trucks to round out the bunch.

Just as an aside, I don't think my company is some exceptionally well-run place, so I'm not sure the CAMTS accreditation really matters. The company I worked for before I moved here to Texas was, in many ways, managed better and they were not CAMTS accredited.
 
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