Drug Screening / Testing in EMS

Veneficus said:
Not always, there are different levels of illness and different loss of functioning within them.

You can have hypomanic/depressed bipolar that is not treated.

Minor or even moderate depression

narcissistic or histrionic personality disorders...

I could go on, but I won't.
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... umm... meaning might have been missed here.

Several computer languages use "!" for various meanings, most importantly for logical negation; e.g. A != B means "A is not equal to B", and !A means "the logical negation of A" (also called "not A").
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark#Computers
 
94H said:
Sanitary wasnt the right word, it was just the most appropriate I could come up with.

I was trying to saw it is better in my eyes to have a saturated swab on a stick then to have cup of urine on your desk
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But JP is right.

As long as it is mid stream or later, it will be less infectious from common pathogens than a swab.

It is like anything else, spend enough time around it and you'll get used to it.
 
94H said:
Sanitary wasnt the right word, it was just the most appropriate I could come up with.

I was trying to saw it is better in my eyes to have a saturated swab on a stick then to have cup of urine on your desk
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Something as sensitive as a drug test shouldn't be simply laying around on anyone's desk unless they're involved with acquiring or processing the drug test. I get that it's "icky" but medicine deals with "ick" all the time, after all just wait for your first digital prostate exam. It's not digital in the sense of computers.
 
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emt seeking first job said:
You have to decide.
However, there should be extensive testing as condition for employment for things like health care, public safety, operating machinery etc.

They will randomly test you and will test your hair. That takes 30-90 days to get out of your system. Furthermore, someone you work with will find out and justifiably report you.

Stick to music, art, or some creative endeavor.

Nobody will want to deal with you. You will have it on you. It will get ripped off, someone will rip you off, you will owe people money. People will come by where you work looking for you. You :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing smell!!!!!

Dude, go back to your mom's basement, video games and skateboards. You have no business working anywhere on or near and ambulance.

Once again, I think drugs should be legal but certain professions and endeavors should test for drugs and bar the users from participating.

I see no reason why Willie Nelson (in fact I WANT him to) can not toke up, but, not anyone working the street with me.

Make your choice now. Mind altering drugs or EMS. You absolutely can never ever have both.
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emt seeking first job said:
No it is not.

Everyone I know who drank heavily growing up is still sharp.

Everyone I know who did pot is now a space cadet.

It is not about being a prude. It is about making a choice. Pot or EMS.

End of discussion.

Period.
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emt seeking first job said:
Maybe in a hospital . But not in the field. Not where health care overlaps public safety.

EMS, Fire and Police all have psych screening.
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emt seeking first job said:
No screening is perfect. Look up Justin Volpe. Look up Robert Hansen. Look up Kenneth Morena and Franklin Mata.

Look up EMT David Taranto. Beleive it or not he is still working.

There are enough :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed up people in public safety without adding marijuana users and their issues into the mix. Legal or not.

At my former LEO job, a guy there was twice arrested (by an outside agency) and twice NOT convicted for dealing. He is still there but the chief took away his gun. That guy unnerved me. There were always 'dudes' coming by to chat with him privately.
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I had a long response typed out to this. Then I realized that it would be worthless to bother posting here, because obviously you are so far out of touch with reality that there is just no way anyone can get through to you with any sort of rationale argument. Making absurd blanket statements like the above serve zero purpose.
 
emt seeking first job said:
Maybe in a hospital . But not in the field. Not where health care overlaps public safety.

EMS, Fire and Police all have psych screening.
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You're quite wrong. I know several people I work with who take amphetamines at work.
 
Mountain Res-Q said:
Legal or illegal... doesn't matter.

I have fired employees for coming to work under the influence of alcohol. Doesn't matter if it is legal or not. Specifically, their job included operating heavy machinery and ensuring customer safety. Regardless of personal opinion in regard to recreational drugs (legal or not), the situation presented an an unacceptable risk to the customer, staff, and the business. Debate the level of impairment all you like, if you live in a "at will state" and the employer has a reason to suspect that your physical, emotional, or mental state presents a liability then they have not only the right, but responsibility to take whatever actions are needed to protect all involved. It is that much easier if you have proof (UA) of a violation of company policy. Hell, I have fired more than one employee that was so addicted to cigarettes that they couldn't wait for their scheduled breaks; if you get customer complaints and it affects the operation... that's life... "Inability to accomplish the task for which hired to a level satisfactory to the employer."
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Really dude?!
Who has cigarette breaks in EMS? And you bang them for that?
 
Mountain Res-Q said:
Legal or illegal... doesn't matter.

I have fired employees for coming to work under the influence of alcohol. Doesn't matter if it is legal or not. Specifically, their job included operating heavy machinery and ensuring customer safety. Regardless of personal opinion in regard to recreational drugs (legal or not), the situation presented an an unacceptable risk to the customer, staff, and the business. Debate the level of impairment all you like, if you live in a "at will state" and the employer has a reason to suspect that your physical, emotional, or mental state presents a liability then they have not only the right, but responsibility to take whatever actions are needed to protect all involved. It is that much easier if you have proof (UA) of a violation of company policy. Hell, I have fired more than one employee that was so addicted to cigarettes that they couldn't wait for their scheduled breaks; if you get customer complaints and it affects the operation... that's life... "Inability to accomplish the task for which hired to a level satisfactory to the employer."
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Exactly.
 
I don't really know how to post to this or reply to certain messages, but I wasn't replying to Mountain Res-Q when I said 'Exactly'. I was trying to reply to something else.

I'll figure this out soon.
 
Trashtruck said:
Really dude?!
Who has cigarette breaks in EMS? And you bang them for that?
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Yes really. Everything stated is true.

For the record, the job I am referring to is my Manager/EMS Supervisor gig at a seasonal Snow Park (the winter-extra-money gig, and right now, something that is allowing me to go back to school). While I have a number of EMTs and EMRs working for me, my position also has oversight over Lift Operations, Park Safety, Snow Cat Operations, Security, Parking, etc. In my Event-Medical gig or when I was working Ambulance, the situation is obviously different; if you smoke... do it between calls IF you have the time. But in this setting, an employee (EMT, Heavy Equipment Operator, or Grunt) that is smoking around children, families, etc, while on-the-job, would be the equivalent to a Medic smoking in the back of the rig with a patient. Who would tolerate that? Seriously, are we that addicted that we can not wait until a break?

In an "at will" state, your employer can lay you off (not fire) for ANYTHING that is non-discriminatory. They can fire you with "just cause". Why give an employer a reason to cut you lose; to say "we can find someone better who is less of a headache"? In the case of this topic: when the market is saturated and the economy sucks, the employer has more options, and given the choice between a chain-smoking, alcoholic, amphetamine-hyped candidate (not the OP... and exaggeration), and... well, me... guess what? So, the OP might not be prohibited from working in EMS with his current medications, but as an employer, why take the risk when there are other candidates without his baggage? I am taking the employers stance on this simply because in this job, I have had more options for employees when hiring in November/December every year. I have passed on many applicants based on perception, and have fired many for simple things like smoking on the job, coming to work hung-over (and then trying to work heavy machinery), and simply mouthing off to a Manager/Owner/Customer. I have had employees with medical marijuana prescriptions and they taught be a lesson; no more! All I ask is that you give 100% every day; if you can't, won't, or I believe you can't or won't... bye...
 
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I think any one on any type of drugs that aren't prescribed should not have a job in ems. Or any real job for that matter. Excluding ciggs and alc, unless severly addicted to alc. Anyways if I can stay clean of drugs and alc for my job because I want to be a professional. Then you can to unless you are addicted? If you cant then that just means you don't want the job badly enough. It means you care more about your fun. So go have your fun.
 
the real deal here.....

all it takes is 1 failed drug test and your plans to EVER work in EMS or medical in any way are gone forever. NO ONE will hire someone who is on drugs at work especially working around drugs and being in high stress situations.

sucks but thats the way it is.

the cost and time needed for EMT-B and later EMT-P to all be thrown out because you wanted to smoke weed does not justify the actions IMO. I was never interested in weed and i did experiement with other substances but it was nothing that was testable in a standard test so i was able to explore and move on while also not risking my career. but thats just me.

if you are a hard an true smoker this job isnt for you. all if takes is one rear ending or not your fault collision or accusation and thats it.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how we in EMS seem to eat our young!

I’m referring to substance abuse in general. I personally know of 7 different incidents involving both physicians and nurses working in direct patient care areas that have been busted either inebriated on the job, popped a hot pee test, or caught stealing drugs from their area.

None of the above cases, NONE of them lost their license. Only 2 were fired! They had to attend mandatory substance abuse treatment and counseling, placed on probation but allowed to return to work eventually. 2 of the nurses received a year suspension of their license, but again were able to return to work. 1 was a meth case...

You do that in the pre-hospital arena and your done. Period.
 
MedicBrew said:
It never ceases to amaze me how we in EMS seem to eat our young!

I’m referring to substance abuse in general. I personally know of 7 different incidents involving both physicians and nurses working in direct patient care areas that have been busted either inebriated on the job, popped a hot pee test, or caught stealing drugs from their area.

None of the above cases, NONE of them lost their license. Only 2 were fired! They had to attend mandatory substance abuse treatment and counseling, placed on probation but allowed to return to work eventually. 2 of the nurses received a year suspension of their license, but again were able to return to work. 1 was a meth case...

You do that in the pre-hospital arena and your done. Period.
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That brings up an interesting topic. But I'll start a new thread so as not to hijack this one.
 
One of the stipulations on this type of deal is usually that the involved provider not handle controlled substances for "x" amount of time. Please explain how that will work for a paramedic.
 
Once again, it's illegal...period. Although you can also abuse alcohol and nicotine, they are still legal substances. Out of all professions out there at the moment, I believe one such as EMS, should be highly respected by the EMPLOYEE. There is no need to have an essay response to this inquiry...Simply put, If smoking pot is that important to you, then you have to also be prepared to face the consequences if, god forbid, something were to happen. Why go through school and testing for your certifications just to have it taken away(worse case scenario).Not hating on you man, just giving my .02.
 
usalsfyre said:
One of the stipulations on this type of deal is usually that the involved provider not handle controlled substances for "x" amount of time. Please explain how that will work for a paramedic.
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The only way it would work is if the medic worked for a double medic agency. I still doubt they wouldn't be fired by their employer.

I personally know of 3 narcotic diversion cases, 2 RNs and 1 medic. One RN and the medic were fired/resigned when told they were going to be fired. The other RN quit when the investigation and somehow got a job at a different hospital in the same city. Because that RN was never officially caught the first hospital couldn't report it to the state or the RN's new employer.
 
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