WTF cop?

armydawg11b

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So my first clinical was this past Saturday, I showed up at 0745 because shift change was supposed to be 0800. Turns out that things had changed since my school set up clinical times. My preceptor wasn't coming on till 0900 so , I had time to kill. They allow me to "ride along" with another paramedic just to get one call in before I actually started my clinical. Here's the call
Tones drop. we load up. 42 y/o male, suicidal threats. This guy is I guess a frequent flyer with these guys, and is super trouble. He weighs around 280. Because of the nature of the call we stage. Once PD makes contact clears it safe we pull up. The medic tells me to grab the jump bag and follow him. As soon as he enters the room the PT gets loud as hell. As I turn to follow him into the tiny motel room that is at known drug motel I see about 13 Rx bottles strewn everywhere inside and outside the room. Since it's a tiny room the Pt is sitting on the bed , the medic directly over him, me in the doorway to the room, and the PD officer and Local fire standing outside the door. Right beside the Pt on the night stand was a freaking 10 in steak knife. Probably within a foot of his right hand. I was able to set the huge jump bag on the knife slide it backwards and take the knife away w/o the psycho seeing. I stepped toward the door and asked the guys behind me to put it somewhere. At that time the cop said "WTF" except he didn't use the abbreviation. The rest of the call went downhill with this guy. Even if he wouldn't have got a hand on it just from a scuffle someone probably would have fallen on this thing. These rooms are literally 10 by 8. Moral is, never put scene safety in someone else's hands.
 

VFlutter

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I was able to set the huge jump bag on the knife slide it backwards and take the knife away w/o the psycho seeing

By Psycho I assume you mean your patient, a suicidal man with mental health and substance abuse issues, and not literally a Psychopath which is totally different and a specific mental disorder.
 

STXmedic

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By Psycho I assume you mean your patient, a suicidal man with mental health and substance abuse issues, and not literally a Psychopath which is totally different and a specific mental disorder.

Quoted for emphasis.
 

Aidey

Community Leader Emeritus
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By Psycho I assume you mean your patient, a suicidal man with mental health and substance abuse issues, and not literally a Psychopath which is totally different and a specific mental disorder.

Quoted for double emphasis. Calling a patient "psycho" is an immediate fail if you're riding with me.

Also, if I demanded a complete lack of potential weapons before entering a room or building I may as well just sit in the ambulance and let every patient walk out to me.
 

mike1390

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Also, if I demanded a complete lack of potential weapons before entering a room or building I may as well just sit in the ambulance and let every patient walk out to me.

This... if someones actually wants to hurt you or others, they won't need a typical "weapon".
 

Handsome Robb

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Quoted for double emphasis. Calling a patient "psycho" is an immediate fail if you're riding with me.

Also, if I demanded a complete lack of potential weapons before entering a room or building I may as well just sit in the ambulance and let every patient walk out to me.

Agreed on both accounts. Yes our safety is the most important thing but this job has inherent risks associated with it. If I had a nickel for every time I took a weapon off someone after PD searched them or cleared a room I'd have a few nickels but not a ton.
 

CentralCalEMT

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Good job realizing that scene safety is your main priority. That being said, not that it excuses it, but sometimes things do get missed. Just last week I had a mildly combative OD patient I got from the cops with a big pocket knife in his pocket. Before that, I can not remember any instances when the cops gave me a patient that still had weapons on them. Just remember in the heat of moment we all are human (EMS Cops, Fire) and sometimes we mess up and overlook things. That is just another reason we need to have each other's back and look out for each other because if we don't nobody else is.
 

CALEMT

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Like Robb and CentralCalEMT say: in the heat of the moment cops are human and tend to miss some things. I remember a particular call awhile ago we went on a OD and PD cleared the scene and the pt was in handcuffs. We run the call all normal, we put the pt on the gurney and it turned out that the pt had a loaded 45 on him (I think it was a 45). Sometimes the cops miss things, hell I remember a youtube video of a suspect in a interrogation room, cop leaves the suspect in the room to go get a water. Suspect pulls a gun and off's himself in the interrogation room in the police station.
 

exodus

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Like Robb and CentralCalEMT say: in the heat of the moment cops are human and tend to miss some things. I remember a particular call awhile ago we went on a OD and PD cleared the scene and the pt was in handcuffs. We run the call all normal, we put the pt on the gurney and it turned out that the pt had a loaded 45 on him (I think it was a 45). Sometimes the cops miss things, hell I remember a youtube video of a suspect in a interrogation room, cop leaves the suspect in the room to go get a water. Suspect pulls a gun and off's himself in the interrogation room in the police station.

And that was even after it being an OIS.
 

CALEMT

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And that was even after it being an OIS.

OIS as in officer involved shooting then no. It was a OD a couple years back, the pt was in and out of it and we just simply took the gun off him and handed it over to pd.
 

ffemt8978

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Okay, now that I've removed the off topic posts in this thread, this is a reminder...

KEEP IT ON TOPIC AND KEEP IT CIVIL!

Failure to do so will result in a minimum of a 30 day ban.
 
OP
OP
A

armydawg11b

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Again, I'm a student. I didn't call the guy a psycho at all during shift. I would also like to throw out that the ER. Doc stated he was having a psychotic episode. So yea, psycho cuts. Also, the point was scene safety. I get everyone is human but with that call, to miss a huge steak knife out in the open within arms reach of PT. Is inexcusable. I wonder if letting my preceptor get stabed would have been an automatic fail?
 

DesertMedic66

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Everyone makes mistakes. Paramedics make them, firefighters make them, police officers make them.
 

triemal04

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armydawg-

You didn't do anything wrong on that call. As far as calling the patient a "psycho"...not the most accurate term, and not the most polite given the setting here, but...people need to get over themselves.

As far as that call, safety is everyone's responsibility for a reason, and we work with partner's for a reason. Part of your job is to watch his back, and part of his is to watch yours. Police are human, and everyone misses something on occasion. As long as everyone is paying attention, not often a big deal.

If you do make this a career, you also need to keep in mind that a "secure scene" will mean something different to the police than to the vast majority of people in EMS. I work in a lousy area; a secure scene here (and this is police policy) means that nobody is actively shooting at them. Sometimes also means that not more than 1 or 2 people are fighting, though that isn't policy.

My point is that just because somebody, anybody, says that the scene is "secure" doesn't mean that it really is and that you don't need to pay attention.
 
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Handsome Robb

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I agree with triemal04. Scene secure is a broad term. Scene security is also dynamic and constantly changing. A "safe" scene can become unsafe very quickly.

Again, I'm a student. I didn't call the guy a psycho at all during shift. I would also like to throw out that the ER. Doc stated he was having a psychotic episode. So yea, psycho cuts. Also, the point was scene safety. I get everyone is human but with that call, to miss a huge steak knife out in the open within arms reach of PT. Is inexcusable. I wonder if letting my preceptor get stabed would have been an automatic fail?

I'd be lying if I said I haven't ever referred to a patient as a psycho after a call. It's all about the setting you're in. There's a time and a place. We want to be called professionals yet we use terminology that many bid derogatory on public forums for the people that we care for to stumble across....this isn't directed at you armydawg just a general statement.

Since you re a student ill use a teaching point...a psychotic episode is different than a psychopath/"psycho".

People make mistakes, more than one person has pointed out they've taken weapons off of people after they've been searched. I get you're upset about it but it'll happen again if you spend enough time on an ambulance. Also didn't you say he was handcuffed? Who cares if the knife is within arm's reach then?

Does anyone else check waistbands before they put a pt in the rig?

Depends on the nature of the call and the patient.

There are areas here where either us and the FD will use the PA to have people lift their shirt up and do a 360 then pull their pant legs up before we get out of the rig. Again that depends on the area, situation and nature of the call.
 
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VFlutter

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Again, I'm a student. I didn't call the guy a psycho at all during shift. I would also like to throw out that the ER. Doc stated he was having a psychotic episode. So yea, psycho cuts.

I understand that you are a student that is why it is important to understand the correct terminology. "Psycho" is usually used as a derogatory term used to describe anyone with mental illness. Psychopathy (psychopath) is a very specific personality disorder. Psychotic episode is not the same as psychopathy, totally different. So ya, no psycho does not cut it.
 

exodus

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Does anyone else check waistbands before they put a pt in the rig?

Any unconscious / ETOH I'll do a quick patdown or ask them if they have any weapons.
 

feldy

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this kind of stuff happens all the time...weve even had instances where pd will tell us its safe and we show up and they are are pulling up behind us...

none the less body position is key in this situation and leave a way out. ive had to pick up a knife and slide in under the couch or bed at times while my partner talks to the pt.

just be smart and be safe. If you feel uncomfortable/unsafe, just back out.
 
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So my first clinical was this past Saturday, I showed up at 0745 because shift change was supposed to be 0800. Turns out that things had changed since my school set up clinical times. My preceptor wasn't coming on till 0900 so , I had time to kill. They allow me to "ride along" with another paramedic just to get one call in before I actually started my clinical. Here's the call
Tones drop. we load up. 42 y/o male, suicidal threats. This guy is I guess a frequent flyer with these guys, and is super trouble. He weighs around 280. Because of the nature of the call we stage. Once PD makes contact clears it safe we pull up. The medic tells me to grab the jump bag and follow him. As soon as he enters the room the PT gets loud as hell. As I turn to follow him into the tiny motel room that is at known drug motel I see about 13 Rx bottles strewn everywhere inside and outside the room. Since it's a tiny room the Pt is sitting on the bed , the medic directly over him, me in the doorway to the room, and the PD officer and Local fire standing outside the door. Right beside the Pt on the night stand was a freaking 10 in steak knife. Probably within a foot of his right hand. I was able to set the huge jump bag on the knife slide it backwards and take the knife away w/o the psycho seeing. I stepped toward the door and asked the guys behind me to put it somewhere. At that time the cop said "WTF" except he didn't use the abbreviation. The rest of the call went downhill with this guy. Even if he wouldn't have got a hand on it just from a scuffle someone probably would have fallen on this thing. These rooms are literally 10 by 8. Moral is, never put scene safety in someone else's hands.

Really scary that the PD would miss a weapon like that in the immediate vicinity of the guy.
 
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