working as an EMT in a skirt

[18G]

Do you really think God cares what clothes you wear? Or are you just trying to conform to your current pastors interpretation of a passage that has been interpreted and re-interpreted repeatedly over the centuries?
All the companies I have seen have uniform standards, and I don't see that skirt/pants thing flying, plus it just looks ridiculous/unprofessional. If you are going to join a service that is already in place you need to conform to their uniform standards. Not try to make them conform to yours.

I completely agree with the above. Addicted already said previously that her own belief's did not exclude the wearing of pants. She is trying to conform with her church.

Addicted... you found one department willing to make an exception but what about others down the road? Do you want to make a career out of EMS or just a hobby? If you want to do this as a career you will be severely limited if not excluded from ever having a decent paying job. I don't foresee any county or hospital based service hiring someone who cannot dress to the uniform standard.

I do feel bad for you that you are put in this position unnecessarily.

 

[addictedforever]

Addicted... you found one department willing to make an exception but what about others down the road? Do you want to make a career out of EMS or just a hobby? If you want to do this as a career you will be severely limited if not excluded from ever having a decent paying job. I don't foresee any county or hospital based service hiring someone who cannot dress to the uniform standard.

I do feel bad for you that you are put in this position unnecessarily.

Some good questions, 18G, things I have to consider personally before making a final decision.
It's interesting tho' that on here, is where I've met with the most resistance to the idea. Most other EMT's/paramedics that I've asked face to face say they'd have no problem with it, as long as I can perform safely. And I've asked multiple ones from multiple companies and states.

 

[18G]

Sometimes people won't always be 100% honest with their opinion face-to-face.

You look young so now is the time to do your soul searching and decide what is right for you in your life. Is that making others happy (as in your church) or making yourself happy while still maintaining the same level of faith?

 

[bigbaldguy]

Negative? Medics? Never. lol the current political climate aside most places allow for legitimate expression of religious beliefs and in most cases the law protects it. If you want to wear a dress over your pants and you can justify it they don't have a legal leg to stand on. I can't see a chief standing in front of a jury and explaining that the reason they didn't hire you is that wearing a dress over your pants looks "silly" and thats basically what all these arguments boil down to. It doesn't sound like you're the type but I'm sure if you mentioned the "lawyer" word all of this resistance would suddenly evaporate. This is exactly the kind of case a civil rights lawyer loves.

 

[addictedforever]

Negative? Medics? Never. lol the current political climate aside most places allow for legitimate expression of religious beliefs and in most cases the law protects it. If you want to wear a dress over your pants and you can justify it they don't have a legal leg to stand on. I can't see a chief standing in front of a jury and explaining that the reason they didn't hire you is that wearing a dress over your pants looks "silly" and thats basically what all these arguments boil down to. It doesn't sound like you're the type but I'm sure if you mentioned the "lawyer" word all of this resistance would suddenly evaporate. This is exactly the kind of case a civil rights lawyer loves.

You mean all outward resistance might evaporate. I'd bet anything they'd still be resistant inside. Can you imagine trying to work with a partner who is stuck with me because I threatened him? I don't think so. I don't see that being real good for relating with my partner(s).

Sometimes people won't always be 100% honest with their opinion face-to-face.

You look young so now is the time to do your soul searching and decide what is right for you in your life. Is that making others happy (as in your church) or making yourself happy while still maintaining the same level of faith?

Thank-you, 18G, I will be doing some more thinking considering all that has been said on here.

 

[bigbaldguy]

You mean all outward resistance might evaporate. I'd bet anything they'd still be resistant inside. Can you imagine trying to work with a partner who is stuck with me because I threatened him? I don't think so. I don't see that being real good for relating with my partner(s).

Like I said I don't think you're the type to sue. Nonetheless I have seen far more trivial things fought over by lawyers. This is a matter of your beliefs and when you take everything else away from us all we have left are those beliefs.

 

[working in a skirt]

Skirts in EMS

I have worked in EMS since 2010 and as a professing Christian I have always worn skirts. I do wear pants underneath (duh)

This has never been an issue and has never interfered with performing quality patient care.

I think If someone who was not used to wearing a skirt put one on it could be dangerous because they are not used to it.

Hello folks, 60 years ago all women wore skirts. The women who were pioneers in this country wore skirts and they did more work and work that was as dangerous as EMS. My co workers respect my religious beliefs.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Uniform codes exist for a reason. We operate in hazardous environments sometimes being around large machinery with snag risks.

A skirt is a safety hazard even over pants and has no place in EMS.

Sorry, that's my opinion. You can like it or not but fact of the matter is I'm tired of seeing articles about injuries or deaths in the line of duty, our job already has hazards why create more for ourselves?

 

[DesertMedic66]

Uniform codes exist for a reason. We operate in hazardous environments sometimes being around large machinery with snag risks.

A skirt is a safety hazard even over pants and has no place in EMS.

Sorry, that's my opinion. You can like it or not but fact of the matter is I'm tired of seeing articles about injuries or deaths in the line of duty, our job already has hazards why create more for ourselves?

This is my opinion also.

 

[TheLocalMedic]

Interesting thread brought back from the dead.

Here's the problem that I have with the whole skirt debate: It is a religious expression, and there is very little room for that in the public safety setting, especially if it may affect work performance.

The purpose of a uniform is to make the workforce look, well, uniform. While there is wiggle room for headwear, but even facial hair is restricted. Tattoos must generally be covered, and jewelry aside from small studs is usually not allowed. So I can see why there is a lot of resistance to allow skirts as well.

 

[SarahMax]

Hi, all. Maybe you can help me. I found this website through Google. I am a paralegal and an EMT came to the lawyer I work for with this issue. She wasn't hired because she wants to wear a skirt. She was willing to wear pants and have a matching skirt made to wear over it. No luck. She did work in another state and wore a skirt with no problem. Have any of you heard anything since the last post in 2014 about this issue?

 

[CALEMT]

@DesertMedic66 wears a skirt all the time to work and his side gig.

 

[DrParasite]

1) I'm pretty sure it's against the rules to get any type of legal advice on these forums.... but I'll let one of the admins make a formal ruling

2) The question really boils down to her personal desires and the agency's uniform policy. What one agency will allow does not guarantee another agency will allow, especially in another state, nor should it.

3) I have heard of agencies making religious accommodations for certain non-standard attire (headcovers for Siks, Kippahs for Jews,etc). However, I believe that was done at the discretion of the agency, not a mandate from the law.

4) One of the criteria for most public safety agencies is to wear a uniform, as specified by the employer. While the employee MAY ask for a waiver, the employer is under no obligation to grant the waiver; after all, wearing the approved uniform is a requirement of the job.

If the EMT in question refuses to wear the approved uniform, as stated in the job descriptions, than that sounds like a good reason for the employer not to hire her. But that might not be the answer she wants to hear, which is why she walked into your office..

But I'm not lawyer, so I would suggest one of your attorneys consult a subject matter expert on this issue.

 

[DrParasite]

I think the question is also, WHY does she want to wear the skirt? is it for personal comfort, or religious reasons?

https://www.ems1.com/ems-management...-paramedic-sues-hospital-for-no-skirt-policy/

The military has changed their uniform polities for religious reasons (although I think many of these changes were in response to lawsuits)

http://taskandpurpose.com/army-grants-religious-exemptions-beards-turbans-hijabs/

And who can forget that DC firefighters can wear beards

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...575-9fff-c32917dcf195/?utm_term=.f57b57a74693

 

[EpiEMS]

And who can forget that DC firefighters can wear beards

Wait, what?
How does their SCBA work effectively if they have a beard?

 

[DesertMedic66]

Wait, what?
How does their SCBA work effectively if they have a beard?

Their religion protects them from the dangers of not having a properly fitting SCBA....

 

[akflightmedic]

And you are making the assumption that there are fires these days which require one....and the assumption that they perform an interior attack.

(could not resist)

 

[DesertMedic66]

And you are making the assumption that there are fires these days which require one....and the assumption that they perform an interior attack.

(could not resist)

I know there are many departments in CA who do interior on the vast majority of fires.

 

[DrParasite]

And you are making the assumption that there are fires these days which require one....and the assumption that they perform an interior attack.

(could not resist)

I can assure you, for all the issues that DC FEMS has on the EMS side, their FD is quite busy with actual fires, aggressive, and goes inside the building to put the fires out on the majority of their fires (when it's possible to do so).

What I don't understand is every applicant knew the rules when they applied (mandatory uniform, clean shaven, etc), and still applied for the position. Now that they are hired, they feel that they should be exempt from the rules that they agreed to follow?

I understand the religious wavers to an extent; but at the end of the day, they knew what was expected of them before they applied. If you can't meet these requirements (for whatever reason, religious or otherwise), than maybe this job isn't for you?

I'm all for asking to change the rules; If a bunch of Siks want to join the military, before they join, why not ask if the army will change the rules for them? if the answer is yes, here is the application, if not, than it might not be the job for you.

Disclaimer: I have many Jewish family members, including orthodox females who never wear pants. But they also don't work on Saturdays or Friday nights; so I wonder if they can get a job doing shift work, accept the position, and then demand (because it's not asking if it's backed up with a lawsuit) from their employer an accommodation that says they never have to work late on Friday or on Saturday...

 

[EpiEMS]

And you are making the assumption that there are fires these days which require one....and the assumption that they perform an interior attack.

(could not resist)

Hey, fair point given the data!

I have many Jewish family members, including orthodox females who never wear pants. But they also don't work on Saturdays or Friday nights; so I wonder if they can get a job doing shift work, accept the position, and then demand (because it's not asking if it's backed up with a lawsuit) from their employer an accommodation that says they never have to work late on Friday or on Saturday...

Not sure if they can "demand" that, but I doubt their colleagues are unhappy to have people around to work Sundays, Christmas, etc...

You know, that reminds me. Ezras Nashim members probably don't wear pants either.

I'm all for asking to change the rules; If a bunch of Siks want to join the military, before they join, why not ask if the army will change the rules for them? if the answer is yes, here is the application, if not, than it might not be the job for you.

Yeah, seems reasonable - but we're talking about requirements that aren't necessarily pertinent to the job, right?