Very, very sick OD patient

sirengirl

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Yesterday was my first full shift at work after being released as a paramedic. Thought I'd share this craziness and ask for input....

EMS brought in a ~58ish y/o C/m who was an OD; pt known to have methodone and codeine. Pt was cyanotic, unresponsive, satting in ~70s-80s on EMS arrival with obvious aspiration, last seen 2330 previous evening (EMS rolled in our doors at 1330). Pt given 2mg narcan on scene and transported. On arrival pt is satting in 80S, putting up a bit of a fight, but still generally comatose.

Pt is transferred into ER bed, blood taken, and 2mg more of narcan administered per MD. Pt is now screaming in pain, and only intelligable words are about back pain and that it hurts. Pt BP in 130s to 140s, tachy in 120s, still satting mid 80s with a non-rebreather that he is trying to pull off, saying he can't breathe. RR around 26. EKG taken is tachy but is insignificant for STEMI. I work in the ER as their transport system for admits and transfers, so doc has me start paperwork to take the patient 38 miles up the interstate to our sister hospital for admit to the ICU.

Labs start coming back, and nurse does a double take. States that pt's troponin is 5.20, and lactic acid comes back at 11.9, pH is 7.32, and several other lab values for kidney and metabolism are out of whack. Doc immediately cancels me and asks the triage tech to contact a helicopter; Pt's bood pressure is now 110s and quickly drops into the 80s.

Doc hangs lopressor, BP drops further into the 60s before slowly starting to climb back up. Pt still combative and agitated, chopper has diverted for 50-car pileup on interstate for 2 trauma alerts and ETA is now 30+ minutes.

Pt suddenly vomits, does not even attempt to turn head to the side, and begins to aspirate. Stomach contents appear to be undigested beef stew (keeping in mind pt has not eaten at all this day due to OD). ER crew suctions and ventilates, preparing to intubate. Doc gets a difficult intubation with the Glidescope but manages to secure the tube and confirm placement. RT comes in with an NG tube and as chopper is now 10 minutes out, bag patient until they arrive and assume control of the patient. Call to flight time is an hour and a half. My drive time up to main campus is 40 minutes traffic speed.

The best we can guess, pt self-medicates for back pain, as the boyfriend told us there is some kind of metal implants in the back that the pt cannot go through airport security because of. We figure that he OD'd on the self medication and had a cascade reaction of kidney failure, cardiac muscle wasting, and rhabdomyolosis when he was brought out of it.

Anyone's thoughts? I'm far too ignorant to really understand what went on with this guy. My stepmum works in the ICU he was flown to, so hopefully in a couple days when she has a shift, I'll get an update on him (assuming he made it). Looking back on it, I realize what an absolute clusterf:censored: of a call this would have been, as halfway down the interstate he would have crashed and I would have been struggling by myself to get my partner to pull the ambulance over and come help me hang dope, then suction, then tube the guy on the side of the road.... Still, that's about a million times more exciting than stuff usually is at my job...

Any insight on the guy?
 

CANMAN

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Poly-substance OD's are normally a train wreck most of the time. Please tell me the MD did not hang Lopressor on a pt. with systolic of 80's, typo right?
 

usalsfyre

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Sounds like an aspiration leading to sepsis and all the associated issues. The only thing that truly surprises me is it seems like the ED doc got severely behind the 8 ball airway wise (which is a good lesson to take away...RSI done early beats a crash airway late).

Sepsis is one of those disease process you really want to be aggressive with early on if you can. It seems like there may have been a focus in the OD rather than other issues it had caused.

Edit:Totally missed the bit about the Lopressor....I'm hoping you meant Levophed?
 
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Veneficus

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SWI-GOK :D

I am in rare form tonight and I haven't had a drink yet.
 

VFlutter

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Edit:Totally missed the bit about the Lopressor....I'm hoping you meant Levophed?

The patient was tachy so the doctor gave him Lopressor. Duh! :rofl:

I wouldn't think Levophed would be the best option either.....
 

usalsfyre

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The patient was tachy so the doctor gave him Lopressor. Duh! :rofl:
If only I hadn't seen this exact thing happen....

I wouldn't think Levophed would be the best option either.....
Levo would have been my number one, assuming I was already running fluid resus. She's already tachy, so dopa and epi are poor choices. I suppose you could have gone with neo, but what's the back up if neo fails in a patient who you suspect is catecholamine depleted (like I would strongly suspect her for)?
 

VFlutter

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If only I hadn't seen this exact thing happen....


Levo would have been my number one, assuming I was already running fluid resus. She's already tachy, so dopa and epi are poor choices. I suppose you could have gone with neo, but what's the back up if neo fails in a patient who you suspect is catecholamine depleted (like I would strongly suspect her for)?

My first thought was Neo, but I see your logic and can't really argue against it. If they were cathecholamine depleted you could throw some vassopresin in the mix
 
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sirengirl

sirengirl

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Yes sorry, levophed. My b, my brain's a bit scrambled.

But yeah, agreed on the behind the 8 ball with the airway, I was shocked he even got to the point of vomiting again....

Also shocked the doc wasted so long waiting on the chopper when I could have gone there and back with him by the time they arrived...
 

MSDeltaFlt

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A positive troponin, altered level of consciousness, OD, and aspiration pneumonia. Dude is screwed. Big time. I say that because you add a 50% mortality with aspiration on top of whatever else is going on.
 
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sirengirl

sirengirl

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A positive troponin, altered level of consciousness, OD, and aspiration pneumonia. Dude is screwed. Big time. I say that because you add a 50% mortality with aspiration on top of whatever else is going on.

Yeah I don't think he's expected to make it. Ill have my stepmum ask around on Monday to see.

Sadly enough I think the worst part is that apparently he dropped his insurance last month. Impeccable timing....
 

MSDeltaFlt

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Yeah I don't think he's expected to make it. Ill have my stepmum ask around on Monday to see.

Sadly enough I think the worst part is that apparently he dropped his insurance last month. Impeccable timing....

Murphy and his d#mn Law.
 

usalsfyre

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Yeah I don't think he's expected to make it. Ill have my stepmum ask around on Monday to see.

Sadly enough I think the worst part is that apparently he dropped his insurance last month. Impeccable timing....

Yeah, not a huge surprise. You'll learn the more things you end up doing, the less often it makes a difference...

Hopefully he has a decent estate, but I sort of doubt that as well.
 

Melclin

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I have mixed feelings about this pt being given naloxone in the first place.

I feel narcan has its place in the uncomplicated, clear single opiate OD. Poly pharm, chronic pain hx, aspiration or other complications....I feel like this pt should have been intubated by EMS in the first instance.
 

Handsome Robb

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I have mixed feelings about this pt being given naloxone in the first place.

I feel narcan has its place in the uncomplicated, clear single opiate OD. Poly pharm, chronic pain hx, aspiration or other complications....I feel like this pt should have been intubated by EMS in the first instance.

Agreed, although I'm on the fence about EMS doing it, personally at my level of experience with a pt like this I'd have called a doc and talked it out before tubing him, call me what you will but I'm not going to be the medic that tubes the guy with an easily reversible cause.

I am wondering why this guy didn't get RSId much sooner by the ERP though. Personally if I were you, Siren, I would've insisted they tube him before I took him on the transfer but that's just me.

Sounds like a cool case though!
 
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sirengirl

sirengirl

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Agreed, although I'm on the fence about EMS doing it, personally at my level of experience with a pt like this I'd have called a doc and talked it out before tubing him, call me what you will but I'm not going to be the medic that tubes the guy with an easily reversible cause.

I am wondering why this guy didn't get RSId much sooner by the ERP though. Personally if I were you, Siren, I would've insisted they tube him before I took him on the transfer but that's just me.

Sounds like a cool case though!

Yeah he definitely should have had a tube a lot sooner than he did. He was fighting to breathe for a real long time... But in the ER I am little more than a glorified CNA; I'm not even allowed to do veinipunctures for them...
 

Melclin

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Agreed, although I'm on the fence about EMS doing it, personally at my level of experience with a pt like this I'd have called a doc and talked it out before tubing him, call me what you will but I'm not going to be the medic that tubes the guy with an easily reversible cause.

Yeah I understand what you mean.

Some times I wonder about the people to whom we take our patients. There a few aspects of EM that we, at least locally, do better than the ED. RSI is generally one of them.

If I were presented with this pt, I would certainly be wondering about the arse whipping I might get from the ED for not giving him narcan before I was calling for a tube.

Still, opiate ODs are hardly a massive problem where I work. There are paras where I work who have never given narcan in careers spanning multiple decades. So maybe they wouldn't care in ED, but it would certainly be on my mind.
 

Veneficus

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narcan vs intubation...

I think it is a question of: What are you trying to accomplish?

Sometimes the goal is to wake them up and send them on their way.

Sometimes they have other issues that need to be addressed.

It is hard to find fault in the ED when you realize than an ED is not an ICU. There is not 1:1 or 2:1 nursing care.

In a busy ED, patients can go hours without anyone even looking into the room. So I can see not everyone being right on top of this.

It sounds like the plan was to wake him up and ship him out and he took a turn for the worse.

It also sounds like there were some issues understanding how airmed functions, what it is for and when it is better to go by ground.

I also have noticed that there is a growing disdain for substance abusers in the medical community at large. This overtly antagonistic attitude leads to many mistakes being made in the care of this population.
 

NomadicMedic

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It seems as though the acuity level of this patient was never accurately assessed. A polypharm OD with obvious aspiration, low o2 sats and a deceased level of consciousness after 2mg of narcan would light up my "I gotta tube this guy" meter, and I'm not a super aggressive RSI medic. I certainly wouldn't have taken a CCT transport without a tube in place and a decent sedation package running.

Seems like the doc on duty didn't realize how far behind the 8 ball he was until it was crash airway time.
 

MSDeltaFlt

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It seems as though the acuity level of this patient was never accurately assessed. A polypharm OD with obvious aspiration, low o2 sats and a deceased level of consciousness after 2mg of narcan would light up my "I gotta tube this guy" meter, and I'm not a super aggressive RSI medic. I certainly wouldn't have taken a CCT transport without a tube in place and a decent sedation package running.

Seems like the doc on duty didn't realize how far behind the 8 ball he was until it was crash airway time.

Agreed. Armchair quarterbacking here, but reading how combative the pt was pre intubation, I have. questions conscerning the validity of so.e of vitals without ABG's
 
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