Trooper vs. Paramedic

[reaper]

Never said we do not have it in EMS, I see it all the time. We need to make sure that it is not happening in any of these professions, period.

 

[mycrofft]

See, if they were armed...

This is a keyhole look. The neck grab on an erect subject puts them off balance, throat exposure will instinctively slow or stop a pugnacious response (old military training trick, thumb or baton end under the chin and lift without striking). It does pose danger of injuring the subject if they fall or lunge.

As a side note, did you notice the increasing volume and numbers of bystanders? Now when people get in trouble cell phones summon gaggles of bystanders, often supportive and defensive of one party. Ugly and fast.

 

[ClarkKent]

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/online/Top-EMS-News/Scuffle-Between-Oklahoma-Troopers--Medic-Caught-on-Tape/1$9591
Found some more information on the video.

 

[Shishkabob]

I think this is the part some of you "I hate cops" people are missing.


It doesn't matter what you think is a right and wrong arrest. It really doesn't. If they want to arrest you, you have ABSOLUTLEY NO recourse against such in the field. Wait until court. If you resist, you deserve what you get.



The officers told the medic/emt that he needs to take the patient to the hospital and THEN he would be arrested. The EMT stuck his finger in the cops face and tried to fight his way back in to the truck. No matter how you view it, THAT IS WRONG. He is lucky the cops didnt change their mind and cuff him then and there.


The cops obviously DID have the patients interest in mind because they didn't force abandonment.

 

[mycrofft]

I work for a sheriff's dept. by choice.

This particular instance resists further intelligent discussion until more is known, and, like the "chemical weapon woman" a number of years back, the truth will be swept under the tables in the courtrooms.

As a catalyst for general discussion, once again we are hearing from the uncritical lovers and unloving critics. Considering the shrieking bystanders gathering on the scene, this is more than just a LE versus ambulance issue.

By the way, the followup article cited says the pt was treated and released. (Code three for that? Lucky lady, with her son riding in the ambulance with her, too).

PS: local Okfuskee Couinty News just basically reopeats article cited above.

 

[fortsmithman]

I think this is the part some of you "I hate cops" people are missing.


It doesn't matter what you think is a right and wrong arrest. It really doesn't. If they want to arrest you, you have ABSOLUTLEY NO recourse against such in the field. Wait until court. If you resist, you deserve what you get.



The officers told the medic/emt that he needs to take the patient to the hospital and THEN he would be arrested. The EMT stuck his finger in the cops face and tried to fight his way back in to the truck. No matter how you view it, THAT IS WRONG. He is lucky the cops didnt change their mind and cuff him then and there.


The cops obviously DID have the patients interest in mind because they didn't force abandonment.

In most places whether the arrest is justified or not you can not resist if you do you are charged with obstructing a peace officer(that's what it's called here in Canada) . It used to be like that here in the NWT but a year or so ago a NWT supreme court justice hearing a case ruled that before the charge of obstructing a peace officer could be laid the arrest itself must be valid so here if the arrest is bogus the LEO cannot arrest someone for obstruction.

 

[Afflixion]

Both parties were in the wrong no one can refute that. I have been pulled over by Border Patrol while running a code. We picked the patient up near the fence line and apparently set off their sensors there, originally the BP agent pulled up behind us L&S and I told my driver to throw on his 4-ways (to let him know we acknowledged his presence and intent) and continue code 3 and we'd deal with it once we got to the hospital but the BP agent had other things in mind as he passed us and pulled in his vehicle in front of ours. So naturally we stopped while I was still working the code my driver got out to see what the BP agent wanted and to inform him we were working a code from what my driver told me he insisted that we open the back of the truck and let him search it for illegal immigrants my driver then informed him it would be a violation of HIPAA and he would be interfering with patient care and the BP agent still refused us passage the only reason why we got to him to wait until we got to the hospital on the matter was because a TX state trooper happen to drive up and force the BP agent to wait. Upon getting to the hospital we took the patient into the ED after the BP agent tried to question him (he was unconscious) Then the agent tried to arrest us for not halting in a timely manner or something like that it eventually blew away we never got arrested (thanks to the state trooper who helped us out) but that was just a giant Charlie-foxtrot. My service filed a formal complaint against that agent never found out what happened to him though if anything. Basically moral of the story is do what your told by LEOs if your in the right no harm will come of you. If that trooper didn't drive past we would've had the agent call his supervisor to come down...all in all it was a lengthy process that could've resulted in the pt's death but thankfully it didn't.

 

[mycrofft]

What if the medic in the video was armed?

Whole NEW dynamic.

 

[mikie]

Whole NEW dynamic.

Way to open a whole new can of worms!

 

[Shishkabob]

What if the medic in the video was armed? Whole NEW dynamic.

We'd be less one idiot?

 

[el Murpharino]

At 1:13, when cameraman when going around the ambulance to see the driver talk to a trooper, the side door was closed. At 1:29 it was open, and at 1:44 there was several troopers outside of it pointing into the door saying "You're under arrest". Unfortunately we didn't see what transpired in those 20-30 seconds. This is definitely one of those situations where the whole picture would have helped...but either way, it's something that could have been better handled by both ends. I'm bet had the patient been the mother of one of those troopers that they wouldn't want an ambulance wasting time one the side of the road arguing who failed to yield to who.

 

[bstone]

I think it is illegal to interfere with an ambulance crew while they are actively involved in patient care.

The only person who needs to be charged is this officer. He needs to have his badge, gun and pole up his *** taken away and never, ever put in the position of authority ever again. Period.

 

[emt_angel25]

honestly i am floored. while driving an ambulance has its benefits it does not mean that we can drive how we want when we want. if that officer thought there was a need for the truck to be stopped he had every right. HOWEVER, not while the ambulance was in transport to the hospital. He could have just as easily followed the rig to the hospital and taken care of it AFTER pt care was transfered to the staff there. its truly a shame that it played out the way it did and that it was on a public road where everyone could see how un-professional that all was.

 

[vquintessence]

My money is on the guy has a warrant of some kind.

We'd be less one idiot?

Are you basing these guesses on a gut feeling or something more substantial? Do you believe the OHP knew that a felon was working on the truck and they just sat on the information... hoping to stumble upon him some point later in the day?

you deserve what you get

Sometimes, but like you eluded too earlier on this topic... lets let the jury or judge make the final verdict. Hopefully the conversation before and after the video can shed some light on actual dialogue where the arresting officer explained the circumstances behind his decision to arrest one of the paramedics.

The cops obviously DID have the patients interest in mind because they didn't force abandonment.

Did the OHP have the divine foresight to know that the ambulance responding Code had a non-critical pt? Odds are in the OHP's favor the pt wasn't but still, the question remains valid.

I think this is the part some of you "I hate cops" people are missing.

What has been said on this topic to give you that impression? Questioning authorities decision or processes doesn't equate to being a "snot nosed liberal" or "cop hater"

 

[ClarkKent]

If we were able to see what happened and the officer was acting illegal, then yes I am 100% behind you. But there is still WAY to many unknowns here

I do not see any of the lights on the ambulance, so there is no way of knowing if there were running a code or not. Plus the pt. is talking, and the EMT does not have any gloves or blood on him, so I would assume she is stable at the time. But what do I know, I have not even taken my NREMT just yet.

I think it is illegal to interfere with an ambulance crew while they are actively involved in patient care.

The only person who needs to be charged is this officer. He needs to have his badge, gun and pole up his *** taken away and never, ever put in the position of authority ever again. Period.

 

[Shishkabob]

Are you basing these guesses on a gut feeling or something more substantial? Do you believe the OHP knew that a felon was working on the truck and they just sat on the information... hoping to stumble upon him some point later in the day?

You physically fight with a uniformed cop, and you're an idiot. There are no two ways about that.

Did the OHP have the divine foresight to know that the ambulance responding Code had a non-critical pt? Odds are in the OHP's favor the pt wasn't but still, the question remains valid.

I don't see anywhere in any official source where it says the rig was going code. That was only brought up by a forumer here. Therefor, if it wasn't going code and didn't stop, even more of an idiotic move, don't you agree?

What has been said on this topic to give you that impression? Questioning authorities decision or processes doesn't equate to being a "snot nosed liberal" or "cop hater"

Just like there are the "Blame America first" group, there is always the "Blame Cops first" group. In every single forum. In every single thread. It's a broad general statement.

 

[fortsmithman]

Was the ambulance running with lights and sirens, lights only or no lights. in my service for non critical calls we run without lights and sirens. If the ambulance did the same running without lights and sirens then they are required to yield to another emergency vehicle running with lights and sirens.

 

[bstone]

The news article said it was a heat exhaustion call, so they were certainly en route to the ER. They were not going Code 3 as it was not super emergent.

 

[VentMedic]

Here's an update with the Paramedic's statement.

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0509/626636.html

The patient couldn't have been too critical if both attendants left the ambulance.

 

[Shishkabob]

Paul Franks was the driver of the ambulance, which was transporting a patient to a hospital in Prague

My god! From the US to Europe?! Talk about overtime!