Transporting the infant in the patrol car

[Vizior]

Saw this on another forum, decided that you guys might like to see it. Have at it.




http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=7334

LOUISVILLE, Ky. --

EMS officials are reviewing the way they handled an emergency involving a critically ill infant who stopped breathing Saturday.

Firefighters felt an ambulance was taking too long, so they took matters into their own hands.

<snip>

About three minutes after the trucks left their firehouse, firefighters reported being at the scene. Two Metro Police units also reported being at the scene at 9:59.

As they waited for an ambulance to arrive, Adams said firefighters tried to revive E-Shaun.

"One of the little officers came and grabbed him and rushed him down the steps," she said.

According to city records, they rushed E-Shaun to Kosair Children's Hospital in the back of their squad car.

He later died at the hospital.

An ambulance arrived at the scene seven minutes after leaving west Louisville. Records show dispatchers informed them E-Shaun was already gone, so they headed to the hospital.

<snip>

"So this is going to be one of those situations where we go back and look at who made the decision. What was the context leading up to those decisions, do we need to make any changes?" she said.

"I think they need to fix it. They need to fix it. Get more workers, if they have to. Get more cars," Adams said. "Anything to save people's lives, that's what they need to do."

 

[mdtaylor]

There are only 'what if's' and 'are they's' to discuss. We can only assume that the firefighters were at least first responders else why would they be dispatched to a medical call. Same with the LEO's. But we cannot be sure with the information in the article. Did the LEO's simply provide transport or did they provide BLS on the way as well. And was it really in the protocols of the governing agency for LEO or Fire to transport?

Just too many unanswered questions.

 

[KEVD18]

the ambulance had a seven minute response. sounds fair to me.

i think somebody on either the fire or le crew(or maybe both) will hang for this one.

 

[Vizior]

Well, the way it read to me was:

Dispatched @ 9:54, Fire EMS & PD
Fire Arrived @ 9:57
PD Arrived @ 9:59
and assuming that it was true that EMS arrived 7 minutes after being dispatched, the ambulance arrived @ 10:01.

 

[Ridryder911]

I believe the Officers should be held accountable for their action and disciplined for gross error. They could had rendezvous, or even awaited for the EMS unit. What care did they perform, and obviously was not enough.

Sorry, no excuses in fact should be made an example of. They should had known better and a better relationship and education is obviously needed between EMS and the Police.

R/r911

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

The child stopped breathing, and they transported in the back of the squad car. Was there another person in the back with him? Did he/she have an AMBU with O2?

If the answers are "no", then someone screwed the pooch.

 

[fortsmithman]

The police members should have waited for EMS.

 

[skyemt]

The child stopped breathing, and they transported in the back of the squad car. Was there another person in the back with him? Did he/she have an AMBU with O2?

If the answers are "no", then someone screwed the pooch.

so, are you saying that if there was someone in the back of the car, with an MBU with O2, you agree with their actions?

 

[BossyCow]

so, are you saying that if there was someone in the back of the car, with an MBU with O2, you agree with their actions?

I'm saying the liklihood of a patrol car having a peds ambu bag is pretty doggone slim.

 

[firecoins]

These cops must have panicked. I have had to calm down cops on pediatric calls even when we were there BEFORE them.

 

[mdtaylor]

I'm saying the liklihood of a patrol car having a peds ambu bag is pretty doggone slim.

I don't think it unreasonable for fire or LEO to have BVMs and O2. After all, they were dispatched to the scene, most likely as first responders. They should be equipped, but we may never know.

 

[BossyCow]

I don't think it unreasonable for fire or LEO to have BVMs and O2. After all, they were dispatched to the scene, most likely as first responders. They should be equipped, but we may never know.

Absolutely they might have BVMs but for an infant? And is a LEO going to know infant CPR? The FF might but since they were waiting for EMS, I'm guessing not a fire based EMS system. Pediatrics is very different from adult treatment and with the adrenalin obviously at work here, I'm going to say they probably botched it.

The first pulse you take on a call is your own!

 

[JPINFV]

The first pulse you take on a call is your own!

Someone else knows of the Fat Man?

 

[Ops Paramedic]

Sounds like a poor judgement call, possibly resulting in the negative outcome. Seeing that the Fire guys where there before the LEO, they should have superseeded the LEO, as this is also not there speciality. They could have obtained a ETA on the ambo, and made a joint desicion as to what to do. Should there have not been any resources available, then maybe making haiste to hospital would have been the correct choice...

 

[ffemt8978]

What I couldn't figure out from the article is this: The ambulance arrived on scene basically 2 minutes after PD, but it was PD that transported. How long did it take PD to get to the hospital (what was their transport time)?

If it was more than the two minutes it took the ambulance to arrive, then they possibly delayed medical treatment to the patient. If it was less than the two minutes, then it's possible the outcome would have been the same but we'll never know.

 

[medicdan]

Someone else knows of the Fat Man?

THAT was the reference I have been waiting for. I haven't seen nearly enough of the Fat Man in EMS.
Maybe we need a reiteration of the rules? I'll see what I can do.

 

[paramedix]

It is a judgment call...but, you are gambling with a life. I have seen patients arrive at hospitals on the back (on top) of the fire engine. Numerous times. Purely because there were no ambulances available - cannot comment on the availability of the vehicles.

I would be very weary of making that decision.

 

[DocPetey]

This is a tough one for me, as I have both an EMS and an LE background. That, and I HATE "Monday Morning Quarterbacking".

That said, LE should have waited for EMS. Don't think the cops deserve punishment, just better education. Seems they reacted emotionally, and who among us never has?

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

so, are you saying that if there was someone in the back of the car, with an MBU with O2, you agree with their actions?

Not necessarily. If they did, then they might be able to get out of this relatively unscathed. If they didn't, then they can BOHICA.

 

[daemonicusxx]

sounds like pd arrived after fd, so im sure fd had an ambu bag. at least a bls kit. not sure if pd should have txp'd or not. i wasnt there.