Over react much? There's a difference between necessity and excess. Those classes can never be a burden and can only aid an individual in his/her career. However, you will notice that nationally the standards for the programs differ. To me its a little much when you need practically an associates degree to perform a Job that does not require one In another part of the country. At the end of the day, the same tasks are performed and they yield the same results.
Straight to Paramedic from EMT?
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Over react much? There's a difference between necessity and excess. Those classes can never be a burden and can only aid an individual in his/her career. However, you will notice that nationally the standards for the programs differ. To me its a little much when you need practically an associates degree to perform a Job that does not require one In another part of the country. At the end of the day, the same tasks are performed and they yield the same results.
CAO
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Only an associate's degree. That's the scary part.
Pittsburgh77
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If your goal is to become a paramedic, then do it.
I understand what you're saying. I come from the same environment. For those that are unfamiliar with the NYC 911 system, the medics only get ALS job types. They're not getting the sick jobs, splinting injuries, boarding/collaring/KED on the BS Allstate-itis, to give a few examples. As such, the average medic doesn't see much BLS stuff. One medic I rode with back in the day was struggling with the board & collar. Others can't do a sling & swathe or a traction splint to save their life. In the NYC 911 system, if you didn't spend any time getting good at BLS, you'll hardly ever see that stuff as a medic. Chances are that if you do need to do some bleeding control or immobilization, you'll have BLS onscene doing it with you or for you. In this type of system, it's necessary to have some BLS experience going in to medic school. Remember, the ALS ambulance rotations are seeing the same ALS job types and the same lack of BLS opportunities. I did two years at my hospital as an EMT and then gained a third year of experience while doing the medic program.
Now, I've worked in two other systems down south. My last employer was a county run third service. The entire fleet was medic/EMT unless they were training medics, then it was double medic. The difference from the NYC system is that the buses down there get anything and everything. In NY the medcs can see several good jobs in an 8 hour shift. These southern systems run 24's. You might see a couple of "ALS" where they're okay, and you just do vitals, O2, monitor, IV, txp (V.O.M.I.T.). Your true ALS calls, the ones that NYC medics see on a regular basis, may only come once or twice a week, on average, if at all. They're also seeing all the BLS that the NYC medics would not. As such, an EMT in that type of system can and should go right to medic school. They'll see plenty of BLS on their ambulance rotations in medic school, and also see it afterward in the field.
At my current employer, we do a 16 week ALS internship. Our medic units also get everything, not just ALS. We also do EMD, so everything gets overtriaged, anyway. Medics here aren't thrown to the wolves, either. They can't ride lead on a medic unit until they have 18 months riding under a medic Lt. One could go BLS right to ALS here, too.
Really, in any system where every unit is medic/EMT, the EMT can go to medic school right away. The medic tells them what to do anyway, so they're really not learning anything. In NY the BLS often have to use critical thinking skills, any may have to handle CTD ALS pts on their own if ALS is extended.
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fast65
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Not to attack you, but I have to agree with what jtpaintball said. Classes like those are the backbone of our curriculum, they only serve to reinforce what we're learning and tie it all together. Honestly, I would love it if an Associates was the bare minimum, we should be striving to push the future of EMS further, and by increasing the educational requirements of future EMS providers that task becomes a little bit easier.
There's plenty of EMS providers who just want to learn how to do all the "neat stuff" or pump the patient full of drugs without truly learning why they're doing it and what is going on at a physiological level; that is what we need to change, and those classes that seem to be "a little much" are, in fact, crucial in quality improvement.
Now I'm not saying that just because a person doesn't have an Associates they can't be a good medic, because we all know that isn't true, but I am saying that advancements in education are very important to the vitality of this career.
Disclaimer: The above statement is an opinion, and only an opinion that reflects the personal beliefs of the author
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MusicMedic
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I would Highly recommend taking A&P as it helps you understand the Human Body and how it works alot better
im currently taking Anatomy (going to be taking Physio next semester), and it really opened my eyes about how little i know.... by the amount of information it makes my EMT class seem like a cake walk..
and i believe it will help me during Medic School
i personally believe all EMT's should be required to take some form of A&P class as a pre req.
just my 2 cents
JPINFV
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I have always maintained that any paramedic school worth the tuition dollars should be able to take a student with no experience and turn them into a paramedic. You don't have to be a PA to go to medical school or a CNA or LVN/LPN to go to nursing school and there are plenty of PA schools that do not require health care experience. Requiring EMT experience is merely a crutch for sub-par paramedic schools.
Do you think its a crutch or more of a tool to weed out un needed EMT"s? There are a ton of nursing jobs out there and plenty of PA jobs but EMT and Paramedic jobs seem few and far. At least in N. California they are. But I always see nursing and PA jobs around here.
DrParasite
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really? where?
every PA program that I applied to (and I applied to quite a few) required at least 1000 hours as a prereq.
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JPINFV
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From this list of PA programs, http://www.arc-pa.org/acc_programs/ , of the first 10, the following don't require experience. Encourage is not the same as required and there's a difference between, "Get a feel for being a medical professional," and "We refuse to teach people to do a physical exam properly."
University of South Alabama's website was done at the time this post was made.
http://main.uab.edu/shrp/default.aspx?pid=32650
http://www.harding.edu/paprogram/Admission.html
http://www.atsu.edu/ashs/programs/physician_assistant/admission_requirements.htm
http://www.midwestern.edu/Programs_and_Admission/AZ_Physician_Assistant_Studies.html
http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/physician_assistant/requirements
http://www.tu.edu/departments.php?id=48&page=1195
So out of the first 10 colleges with working websites, 6 do not require health care experience. Also, none of those programs required any specific one field to have experience in.
JPINFV
Gadfly
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Interviews. Requiring academic pre-reqs (since I absolutely don't trust paramedic programs to incorperate courses like anatomy and physiology into their program. Too many "2 weeks of A and P and you're done" programs ruined that route. Also, I'd argue that it's the job to graduate well educated providers, not act as some sort of control gate to limit the amount of providers in a given area.
medic417
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More places should just include the basic in the first semester of the degree program. That allows you to meet the states requirement of being a basic but also keeps you from getting side tracked and forgetting to return to complete your education.
Here is just one example.
http://www.westtexas.tstc.edu/index..._id=30&short_dept_name=ems°ree_plan_id=639
Here is just one example.
http://www.westtexas.tstc.edu/index..._id=30&short_dept_name=ems°ree_plan_id=639
TransportJockey
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I think a large part of that is the market is entirely oversaurated with EMTs amd medics. A lot of people get their basic looking for an easy job that pays well without college, and a lot of people get into it and also get their medic to do cool things. PA and RN, on the other hand, take a good amount of education and not everyone wants to go to school for that long.
CAO
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Uggh...I hope this makes sense. Brain feels like its trying to fight it's way out of my skull.
Bottom line is you've got to be able to figure out what's best for your patient.
More education isn't going to hurt, is it?
Performing skills is one thing; knowing when to use them is another.
Joe Blow the medic finds a patient, and her lungs sound like a washing machine. He gets all excited because he gets to use one of his new drugs, and he pushes Lasix. That's what his protocols say, so it's gotta be the right thing.
He forgot that he found her on the floor in her kitchen. She's been there for two days, unable to reach a phone, unable to eat or drink anything from her position. The neighbors got worried when the morning papers began to stack up in her driveway.
Congratulations, Mr. Blow. You just put her into shock.
You may be able to do it, but if you don't know the reasons, you're little more than a liability.
Bottom line is you've got to be able to figure out what's best for your patient.
More education isn't going to hurt, is it?
Performing skills is one thing; knowing when to use them is another.
Joe Blow the medic finds a patient, and her lungs sound like a washing machine. He gets all excited because he gets to use one of his new drugs, and he pushes Lasix. That's what his protocols say, so it's gotta be the right thing.
He forgot that he found her on the floor in her kitchen. She's been there for two days, unable to reach a phone, unable to eat or drink anything from her position. The neighbors got worried when the morning papers began to stack up in her driveway.
Congratulations, Mr. Blow. You just put her into shock.
You may be able to do it, but if you don't know the reasons, you're little more than a liability.
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I guess it depends on what route you take. Some people take a semester long EMT course. And then a year long paramedic program (like the local JC I would like to attend) add on your pre reqs for *aramedic school. Now tack on any extra courses and year getting closer to four years. If you decide to go fire add another semester or an AS degree depending on the school.
You have been in the field a while so obviously you have first hand knowledge but i'm astounded that someone would become a paramedic for the money. I just assumed that it was for the desire to work in pre hospital medicine. If Paramedic was a four year requirement I would still do it. I just prefer pre-hospital medicine over hospital. Just a preference not a shortcut for me. I guess when I"m old and decide my back cant handle carrying a 250lb man down a flight of stairs then I may consider medical school or Nursing but for now my desire is EMS all the way.
JPINFV
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At the same time, there are a much greater number of people who equate training with education while thinking that their training is the end-all, be-all.