stabbing at a local high school

[firecoins]

This was my call

Girl injured in stabbing at North Rockland High School

By RANDI WEINER
STAFF WRITER


(Original publication: November 16, 2007)
THIELLS - One high school girl is in police custody and another is being treated at a hospital for two stab wounds from an altercation outside North Rockland High School at dismissal this afternoon.


School officials said one girl who was arriving at the school to attend an after-school academic program apparently attacked another girl with a five-inch kitchen knife she had brought to school.

Moderator's edit: Read the rest of the story here.

I never saw any securty guards who "got treated at the scene" unless the school nurse treated them. :unsure:

We were dispatched along with an ALS unit. Lots of pd were sent to the school. It sounded like a large fight was in progress with a stabbing. We got there 2 girls were involved. 1 was in custondy, 17. The other was in the nurse's office.

ALS had beat us there and were already treating the female patient. There were 2 stab wounds. Neither serious, both superficial. The most serious of the 2 was between the 3 and 4 inercostal rib, in the area of her breast. The female medic already taped it up. lung sounds were clear and equal. We transported BLS with mother.

Mother was an ER RN from a major trauma center in NYC. Mother was talking lawsuit the whole time. Not unusal for this situation. What was unusal was she didn't want to let her daughter tell me what happaned. I explained I am not a cop and HIPPA applies here as well as nurses in an ER situation. 5 minutes later while still enroute, the daughter told her mother what happened. Okay. Mother didn't seem to care as much.

 

[Asclepius]

This was my call

I never saw any securty guards who "got treated at the scene" unless the school nurse treated them. :unsure:

We were dispatched along with an ALS unit. Lots of pd were sent to the school. It sounded like a large fight was in progress with a stabbing. We got there 2 girls were involved. 1 was in custondy, 17. The other was in the nurse's office.

Are you implying that the press got this wrong? That's a steep accusation. I wonder how that is even possible. Do you think it's possible that people get unfairly demonized because the "real" story isn't told accurately? {My comments are PURE sarcasm related to another thread on this site.}

 

[OreoThief]

asclepius....

I know what you mean..... I TOTALLY know what you mean.

 

[firecoins]

The original link has expired.

The Journal News put out the blob you read in my OP. That is the entirety of the post. A longer article will be in today's punlished edition. The online version is a pay version which I won't do.


The medics had wrapped the wounds prior to my seeing them because they had been on scene first and one of the medics was a female working on a female patient. Wounds were minor.

 

[firecoins]

Look what I found:
http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071117/NEWS03/711170366

Of course Haverstraw Ambulance is not mentioned in the article. We transported the patient to the hospital but the ALS rig got mentioned for treating the patient.

 

[Onceamedic]

Be careful firecoins. I was involved as a care provider in a very prominant double homicide here in my relatively small town. It was and continues to be widely reported. There have been several other situations where someone who's mug is on the front page of the paper is on my cot. I can't and don't talk about it with individuals not directly involved in care and as far as posting about them - only in the most general terms. This was stressed in my educational program and continues to be stressed in the hospital. Don't divulge details that only direct care providers would know or that can identify the individuals involved. It can bite you in a$$.

 

[Asclepius]

Be careful firecoins. I was involved as a care provider in a very prominant double homicide here in my relatively small town. It was and continues to be widely reported. There have been several other situations where someone who's mug is on the front page of the paper is on my cot. I can't and don't talk about it with individuals not directly involved in care and as far as posting about them - only in the most general terms. This was stressed in my educational program and continues to be stressed in the hospital. Don't divulge details that only direct care providers would know or that can identify the individuals involved. It can bite you in a$$.

I was kind of thinking the same thing after the last post from Firecoins. If one did enough checking, I am sure with the level of description we've received already we could easily narrow down the agency and possible who was onscene from that agency. Just be careful not to include specifics....HIPPA and all.

 

[firecoins]

Its my call I am pretty sure you could narrow down that I was on scene. The mere location of the event pretty much set in motion who responded via publically available information. My rig was filmed departing the school. Radio freqencies are monitored by the genral public, recorded by the police and tapes probably available via the freedom of information requests since we

As for the specifin information on the call, I think your right. Could post 4 be deleted by a moderator just in case?

 

[Chimpie]

I edited the post to protect our member.

Warning to all: Please take a moment and review your posts before clicking on 'Reply'. This is not something that I, nor the rest of the Community Leaders, want to get into the habit of.

 

[jmaccauley]

This was my call
[/I][/B]

I never saw any securty guards who "got treated at the scene" unless the school nurse treated them. :unsure:

We were dispatched along with an ALS unit. Lots of pd were sent to the school. It sounded like a large fight was in progress with a stabbing. We got there 2 girls were involved. 1 was in custondy, 17. The other was in the nurse's office.

ALS had beat us there and were already treating the female patient. There were 2 stab wounds. Neither serious, both superficial. The most serious of the 2 was between the 3 and 4 inercostal rib, in the area of her breast. The female medic already taped it up. lung sounds were clear and equal. We transported BLS with mother.

Mother was an ER RN from a major trauma center in NYC. Mother was talking lawsuit the whole time. Not unusal for this situation. What was unusal was she didn't want to let her daughter tell me what happaned. I explained I am not a cop and HIPPA applies here as well as nurses in an ER situation. 5 minutes later while still enroute, the daughter told her mother what happened. Okay. Mother didn't seem to care as much.

The police had already responded and the girl was already taped up. What did you need her to tell you about the incident? Obviously Mom was going to sue somebody, but since you are BLS, what more did you need to know? Or were you just curious? HIPPA or not, you are injecting yourself into a criminal investigation of which you may be issued a subpoena to testify to.

 

[firecoins]

The police had already responded and the girl was already taped up. What did you need her to tell you about the incident? Obviously Mom was going to sue somebody, but since you are BLS, what more did you need to know? Or were you just curious? HIPPA or not, you are injecting yourself into a criminal investigation of which you may be issued a subpoena to testify to.

She was my patient. I am required to fill out paperwork by law. how do you suppose I do this if I can't ask her questions? I left psychic pcrs at home that day.

The ALS unit did not transport nor did they necessarily need to treat. If I beat them to the scene I would done all treatment. I had to document their treatment because its my report that was submitted to the hospital. My file is the one that will be brought up in both criminal and civil court.

 

[Ridryder911]

This was my call
[/I][/B]

I never saw any securty guards who "got treated at the scene" unless the school nurse treated them. :unsure:

We were dispatched along with an ALS unit. Lots of pd were sent to the school. It sounded like a large fight was in progress with a stabbing. We got there 2 girls were involved. 1 was in custondy, 17. The other was in the nurse's office.

ALS had beat us there and were already treating the female patient. There were 2 stab wounds. Neither serious, both superficial. The most serious of the 2 was between the 3 and 4 inercostal rib, in the area of her breast. The female medic already taped it up. lung sounds were clear and equal. We transported BLS with mother.

Mother was an ER RN from a major trauma center in NYC. Mother was talking lawsuit the whole time. Not unusal for this situation. What was unusal was she didn't want to let her daughter tell me what happaned. I explained I am not a cop and HIPPA applies here as well as nurses in an ER situation. 5 minutes later while still enroute, the daughter told her mother what happened. Okay. Mother didn't seem to care as much.

Couple of things. It appeared as some calls, there was mayhem. Attempt to control the call, not let the call control you. Yes, easier said than done. I personally, would not have let mother ride with the patient. Sorry, ER nurse or not.. if she was going to take over, then she could take her herself to the ED. Either my way or the highway in most circumstances.

As a provider of the patient, you are supposed to obtain as much history as possible about the occurrence, and if any other potential injuries occurred. The mother being an ER nurse, realizes this much as well. If there is an event or injury missed, you are just as responsible for the treatment or missed treatment.

HIPAA is poorly understood by most EMT's. Unless, you really know the laws, then I would not make any comments. Most do not really understand it only pertains to those that bill electronically, privacy and HIPAA is separate offenses, as well as public information that can be or not be reported, etc.
If ALS performed the treatment, then they should had documented such, or documented ...."bandaged pta, wound described as". ...

Sorry, on hostage, rape, domestic, I may not want exact details or descriptions, but I sure want a detailed examination and to find out if there is further physical and yes, even psychological injuries.

R/r 911

 

[jmaccauley]

She was my patient. I am required to fill out paperwork by law. how do you suppose I do this if I can't ask her questions? I left psychic pcrs at home that day.

The ALS unit did not transport nor did they necessarily need to treat. If I beat them to the scene I would done all treatment. I had to document their treatment because its my report that was submitted to the hospital. My file is the one that will be brought up in both criminal and civil court.

Relax, I merely asked a question. If the ALS provider told you she was stabbed and taped her up, you needed to complete your report, I get it. Can you understand why the mother may not want her asnswering questions about the event though? I'm sure mom gave you the pertinent info about the patient.

 

[firecoins]

Relax, I merely asked a question. If the ALS provider told you she was stabbed and taped her up, you needed to complete your report, I get it. Can you understand why the mother may not want her asnswering questions about the event though? I'm sure mom gave you the pertinent info about the patient.

Yes I understood why the mother was worried about who her daughter talked to. The daughter said something stupid in front of cops and her mother. the medics and myself made it a point to tell the daughter to not say such things in front of the cops. Its irrelevant that her mom said anything.

Mom gave the pertinent medical history. Given her backround, she knew more than most mothers.

I asked what happaned to get the basic idea of her injuries that I couldn't see at that point. Her ability to recall gives me an idea of l.o.c. which was my follow up question.Later I saw the injuries.

 

[jmaccauley]

Don't get defensive, but this what I have seen on the job. For those who don't know, I am a police officer as well as a BLS instructor. I have seen EMT's and Medics getting overly involved in police investigations, mainly because they are genuinely caring people. However, it may give the pstient/suspect an opportunity to "try out" their story on a neutral party. I have even witnessed medics press the patient for names of others who may have been involved. HIPPA laws are specific, but limited in their scope. My concern has been that a well meaning, but naive, EMT may inject themselves into a criminal investigation. That is not their role and often causes a serious moral, as well as legal, conflicts. Just my viewpoint and others may have a different perspective they might be willing to share.

 

[OreoThief]

Don't get defensive, but this what I have seen on the job. For those who don't know, I am a police officer as well as a BLS instructor. I have seen EMT's and Medics getting overly involved in police investigations, mainly because they are genuinely caring people. However, it may give the pstient/suspect an opportunity to "try out" their story on a neutral party. I have even witnessed medics press the patient for names of others who may have been involved. HIPPA laws are specific, but limited in their scope. My concern has been that a well meaning, but naive, EMT may inject themselves into a criminal investigation. That is not their role and often causes a serious moral, as well as legal, conflicts. Just my viewpoint and others may have a different perspective they might be willing to share.

Thank you for that insight, I appreciate it. So, when we are given "the story" during our assessment, what do you advise us to do? Or even better, what do you advise us NOT to do to keep ourselves away from a situation like this?

 

[jmaccauley]

Thank you for that insight, I appreciate it. So, when we are given "the story" during our assessment, what do you advise us to do? Or even better, what do you advise us NOT to do to keep ourselves away from a situation like this?

Perhaps, as Firecoins stated, advise them that you are there to treat any injuries and are not interested in the other details. It's an interesting and probably touchy delemma. However, Suggesting that they may wish to share their story with the police may get them to stop.

 

[firecoins]

I don't care specifically about criminal investigations. I am not to trying to work against the PD but I need info related to a patient's condition. The patient need to be able to answer my questions without legal repurcussions. My job is take care of the patient first. Its that simple. It is what the job requires. I am not trying to solve crimes, file charges or write tickets.

 

[jmaccauley]

Again, as an EMT, you do need specific information. Just remember that much of what you ask is probably not medically expediant and probably more for your own curiousity than actual necessity. Try not to think of yourself as someone outside the realm of police investigations because, as I said, you may find yourself right in the middle. You do not enjoy doctor/patient priviledges.

 

[firecoins]

Again, as an EMT, you do need specific information. Just remember that much of what you ask is probably not medically expediant and probably more for your own curiousity than actual necessity. Try not to think of yourself as someone outside the realm of police investigations because, as I said, you may find yourself right in the middle. You do not enjoy doctor/patient priviledges.

actually Ido enjoy doctor/patient priveldges. I work as an extension of medical control...a medical doctor. I ask because I am on a need to know basis.