So closing a thread solves the issues?

Farmer2DO

Forum Captain
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So, just a few hours ago, a moderator closed a thread b/c people were having a "grammar debate". I'm at a loss how that accomplishes anything.

The OP commented about further education and how such a requirement would be ridiculous.

Many, many members replied, calling his spelling and grammar into question. The moderator then immediately stepped on anyone who commented on it.

While comments can certainly be written constructively, I think what everyone was posting cut right to the heart of the matter. If you want to do this job, and do it well, and be recognized as a professional, and respected, and compensated as such, education goes along with it. The OP was using poor grammar and spelling, for whatever reason; most of us feel that this is a sign of one of the many things ailing EMS today: lack of education. The fact remains, if you want to be taken seriously, your written thoughts need to be fairly coherent and follow certain accepted guidelines. Everyone can forgive a few errors; I don't think any of us are looking for rigid compliance, 100% of the time. But this isn't text messaging your bff on your phone.

There's no reason to be nasty, or treat other people poorly. What gets me, however, is that there are a couple members on here (that I can think of off the top of my head) who fancy themselves pretty educated and EMS savvy, who come off as complete jerks to anyone that disagrees with them; they're condescending, and they act like they are the complete authority. I've had some private messages with a respected poster, and we were both commenting on one of these people, and what we thought of him (it wasn't positive). But I've never seen either one of these posters called out for being rude, but when the overwhelming majority chimes in on this topic, it gets shut down.

Hey, I understand the whole "we do things the way we want here, if you don't like it, there's the door" idea. But how about applying moderation fairly and to all players, not just the ones who are going to be physicians, and like to lord it over the rest of us? Being polite is easy and free!
 

Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
Community Leader
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Solves the issue? No. Does it stop the threadjacking in that thread? Yes. Permanently. I would imagine that they don't like to close threads that have a good potential for good, healthy discussion. It's when other issues pop up (like that spelling/grammar thing) in the middle of a thread that have little bearing on the topic at hand and people repeatedly ignore the warnings... then yes, the thread must be closed.

Things like spelling, grammar, and word choice all contribute to public appearance, but knowing the material is more important. I'd rather have someone that's had advanced medical education that can't spell worth beans but knows the material take care of me than someone that's has the cert/license that can write perfectly but has less understanding about the subject (in this case, medicine) than a box of rocks, and has the skills to prove it.
 
OP
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Farmer2DO

Forum Captain
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I mostly agree with you, but I have 2 issues:

1. Grammar, spelling and the use of the English language had MUCH bearing on the topic being discussed. Most of the people who replied agreed.

2. There are people on here that get away with being condescending, and the moderation isn't applied equally and fairly.
 

Medic Tim

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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The spelling and structure did play a role in that thread. The problem was people kept kicking the dead horse so to speak.
 

medicdan

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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Exactly. Instead of having a productive discussion about education and the merits for field providers, respondents were caught up on the OP's spelling and grammar, and the discussion become off-topic. The mods warned members several times, and tried to steer the discussion back to effective debate, and members continued to berate the spelling and grammar.

I sense that if someone opened a new discussion intelligently bringing back a debate about education and qualifications it would be well tolerated.

Good Luck!
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
Community Leader
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As the CL that closed the thread in question, I figured I might as well chime in on this.

I have no issue with members reminding others to use correct grammar and spelling here because 1) it makes it easier to read the posts and 2) (as was pointed out in the thread) it points to a larger problem in EMS that we need to work on.

The issue with it is when members continue to focus solely on the grammar and spelling problems to the point of completely hijacking the original thread - even after being repeatedly reminded to get back on topic. When that happens, I have three choices. I can either close the thread (either temporarily or permanently), or I can start issuing infractions to everyone involved, and finally I can remove the thread completely. I chose to do the former. As to whether or not it is temporary or permanent, I haven't decided yet.

Yes, I am aware that several members posted grammar comments in that thread after I posted my warning, but I am also aware that they were actually typing their responses when I posted mine - so they wouldn't have seen the warning.

The Community Leaders are not looking to silence productive discussions (take a look at the recent religion and arming EMS threads), provided they remain on topic and civil.

I mostly agree with you, but I have 2 issues:

1. Grammar, spelling and the use of the English language had MUCH bearing on the topic being discussed. Most of the people who replied agreed.
I agree to a point, but there also comes a time when it is just beating a dead horse. That thread crossed that line.

2. There are people on here that get away with being condescending, and the moderation isn't applied equally and fairly.
Each of the CLs has a different viewpoint and style of moderation...we're not a computer program that will give the exact same results based upon the same input every time. We do try to be consistent, but we evaluate each situation individually and take action (or not) based upon what we feel is right for the forum. We consider a variety of factors that may not be readily apparent to forum members, and they affect our decisions. That being said, if you feel that a CL is out of line or not doing their job correctly, you can either report the post in question or submit a contact us. That will bring the matter to the attention of all the Community Leaders, and we will review the situation and take what action we deem necessary. (Note: abusing this process also has consequences)
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
12,681
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Grammar Nazi thread!

letseatgrandma1.png


jfk.jpg


Now, whenever I use the Oxford Comma, I will be reminded of Stalin with nipple tassels.
 

Jon

Administrator
Community Leader
8,009
58
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So, just a few hours ago, a moderator closed a thread b/c people were having a "grammar debate". I'm at a loss how that accomplishes anything.

The OP commented about further education and how such a requirement would be ridiculous.

Many, many members replied, calling his spelling and grammar into question. The moderator then immediately stepped on anyone who commented on it.
I concur with the responses of many of the members. It is VERY difficult to discuss such a topic seriously when such grammar and spelling errors are staring you in the face.


While comments can certainly be written constructively, I think what everyone was posting cut right to the heart of the matter. If you want to do this job, and do it well, and be recognized as a professional, and respected, and compensated as such, education goes along with it. The OP was using poor grammar and spelling, for whatever reason; most of us feel that this is a sign of one of the many things ailing EMS today: lack of education. The fact remains, if you want to be taken seriously, your written thoughts need to be fairly coherent and follow certain accepted guidelines. Everyone can forgive a few errors; I don't think any of us are looking for rigid compliance, 100% of the time. But this isn't text messaging your bff on your phone.

There's no reason to be nasty, or treat other people poorly. What gets me, however, is that there are a couple members on here (that I can think of off the top of my head) who fancy themselves pretty educated and EMS savvy, who come off as complete jerks to anyone that disagrees with them; they're condescending, and they act like they are the complete authority. I've had some private messages with a respected poster, and we were both commenting on one of these people, and what we thought of him (it wasn't positive). But I've never seen either one of these posters called out for being rude, but when the overwhelming majority chimes in on this topic, it gets shut down.

Hey, I understand the whole "we do things the way we want here, if you don't like it, there's the door" idea. But how about applying moderation fairly and to all players, not just the ones who are going to be physicians, and like to lord it over the rest of us? Being polite is easy and free!

I understand what you are saying. If you have a concern with a paticular member or post, please reach out to the Community Leader team. We welcome suggestions/feedback/input. Every post has a "report post" icon on the left, and that will alert the CL team of your concern. Otherwise, shoot us PM's, emails, etc.

I mostly agree with you, but I have 2 issues:

1. Grammar, spelling and the use of the English language had MUCH bearing on the topic being discussed. Most of the people who replied agreed.

2. There are people on here that get away with being condescending, and the moderation isn't applied equally and fairly.

I'm going to echo FFEMT8978 here. Every one of the Community Leader team is different. Sometimes we interpret what we read in a different manner than other members of our team. While you don't see it in public, I can assure you that we DO discuss and debate our infractions sometimes, and infractions can be reversed or adjusted.

When you are talking face-to-face with someone, there are MANY verbal and non-verbal cues that you interpret and allow to give meaning to what is said. Online, things are much more black and white. That said, as our members post here, we get to know them, and we are sometimes able to understand what they say and post in a different light than a newer member.

Further, while at one point, I was able to read EVERY post on this site, the site has grown bigger, and I have grown busier. I think I speak for the whole CL team in saying that while we monitor the forums, each of us doesn't read EVERY post. That is why there are several of us.


Exactly. Instead of having a productive discussion about education and the merits for field providers, respondents were caught up on the OP's spelling and grammar, and the discussion become off-topic. The mods warned members several times, and tried to steer the discussion back to effective debate, and members continued to berate the spelling and grammar.

I sense that if someone opened a new discussion intelligently bringing back a debate about education and qualifications it would be well tolerated.

Good Luck!

The Community Leaders are not looking to silence productive discussions (take a look at the recent religion and arming EMS threads), provided they remain on topic and civil.

I have re-started the discussion over here: http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=28606
I think BOTH this thread and that thread can be valuable discussions... so PLEASE join the discussion.

Jon

P.S. - Because this thread isn't really EMS-specific, and is more forum-specific, I've moved it to the lounge.
 
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Farmer2DO

Forum Captain
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When you are talking face-to-face with someone, there are MANY verbal and non-verbal cues that you interpret and allow to give meaning to what is said. Online, things are much more black and white.

I agree completely. Many of the nuances of conversation are lost when written.


I have re-started the discussion over here: http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=28606
I think BOTH this thread and that thread can be valuable discussions... so PLEASE join the discussion.


Thank you for your well worded thoughts. I appreciate them. And thank you for restarting the thread; I believe it's an important topic.
 

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Thanks Mods. Hang in there.
 

medic417

The Truth Provider
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