Should EMS be armed

[Melclin]

I could even see guns being used against each other in EMS. Look at the headlines we have had with battles between Fire and EMS that got physicial even at scene. And those are just the ones that make headlines. Some don't have cool enough heads to be professional with each other so imagine what a weapon added to the mix would do?

Good god, I'd hate to think. Out of interest, what do they argue about? I just can't imagine that situations where one didn't clearly have a more relevant expertise than the other, comes up that often. I don't wanna hijack the thread or anything, I've posted enough offtopic stuff already. If there's some link you could post or maybe pm?

 

[VentMedic]

If there's some link you could post or maybe pm?

Here's two. I was looking for a few that happened in SF with its EMS and Fire controversies. But, they've made so many headlines it is difficult to track all of them. Of course with CA allowing convicted felons to hold certifications, how do you monitor all the possibilities.

Firefighter cuts EMT: Assault or Horseplay?
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/category/bureaucracy/page/5/

Controversy erupts after Tenn. fire crew refused to help EMS

http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/pa...upts-after-Tenn-fire-crew-refused-to-help-EMS

 

[SauceyEMT]

There is no reason for EMS to carry firearms. The fact is, without proper training (and sometimes even with it) your gun is more likely to be used against you than by you. Part of the reason that EMS generally get cooperation from sh!theads is because you're not a threat. You're not armed, and likely to hurt someone. Adding a gun to the mix is just a bad idea. We (the police) constantly have to focus on gun retention. We are always conscious of who is near our gun side. EMS professionals don't have the ability to do that when you're focusing on CPR, tubing, administering drugs, starting lines, loading stretchers, etc. Your focus is on patient care, stick to that. If a scene isnt safe, avoid it or back out and call PD for help.

As for body armor, many cities issue body armor to their EMS. In Boston EMS, all field personnel are issued body armor and many wear it. It's not a bad idea.

 

[Sasha]

AJ used to be a cop.... So I don't think he hates them. Unless he's got a self loathing complex!

 

[Afflixion]

I'm even on the fence about tactical medics being armed for a couple of reasons. 1. They are going in WITH several tactical members who ARE armed so why add more? 2. Even military combat medics loose their Geneva Convention protections if they use their personal weapon offensively. (Not defensively) So . . . . . . do they need a personal weapon or not?

In regards to your number one... a tactical medic in a stack team without a weapon is a liability. As it is you usually only have 4 or 5 in a stack team you use the few numbers you have to cover sections of the room/ area to be cleared... the number 2 man has a life expectancy of about 15 seconds. without being armed you are involved in cross fire, unable to clear your area of the room properly, and you will basically be dead weight. In response to your number two... The Geneva conventions? give me a break by us not wearing giant red crosses on our sleeves and kevlars we lost our Geneva and ILW protections as it is. I have manned the M240B, M2, M249 because if you don't your screwed the enemy doesn't care your a medic other than the fact it's better to shoot you than anyone else there even more so than the few officers who have the courage enough to leave the wire because they're combat experienced is limited and thats giving them credit, NCOs are all (should be at least) able to perform 2 jobs ahead of and 2 jobs behind their current placement. Currently I carry my standard issue M9 9mm Berreta Pistol (which has the stopping power of an ant) and I requested an M4 (5.56mm carbine rifle) which I also carry. At no time is a LEO/ tacmedic taking the offensive and in the GWT now we do not take the offensive any more but for a few limited situations.

 

[mycrofft]

Sure, arm 'em in Okfuskee County

so they can fight off the Oklahoma State Patrol...
(not).

I forgot about weapons retention, reason our officers don't carry in jail.

Aw, Aff, they care that you're a medic. Don't feel neglected. They'll shoot at you as soon as they are not so busy shooting back at everyone else, especially if you're wearing the red cross.

(When US started re-painting aircraft to reduce infrared signature, the traditional/legal red cross on white background became a black cross on flat drab green background, or maybe dark gray).

 

[Shishkabob]

Gah, mycrofft, quit putting text in the title box! It makes me confused.

 

[mycrofft]

Only you and Sasha. You know,

I've never seen you two together at the same time, have I.....
Sorry, bad habit from blogging.

 

[Afflixion]

No i get shot at first when they notice my cool giant backpack!

 

[Seaglass]

... not one of these shootings has been intercepted and prevented by a gun toting citizen or even by a legally armed security operative with some level of arms and/or combat training.

"Off-duty cop stops shooting" stories are pretty common in the police magazines. A few pro-gun organizations also keep logs of civilians who somehow defend themselves or others using guns.

 

[RU2TENTZZZ]

If we are to be armed then train in pepper spray or stun guns...

 

[medic417]

If we are to be armed then train in pepper spray or stun guns...

Read the discussion then you will see why if armed be fully armed.

 

[SauceyEMT]

AJ used to be a cop.... So I don't think he hates them. Unless he's got a self loathing complex!

Exactly why it makes the comment worse.

 

[SauceyEMT]

I have never seen a Tac medic or LEO that uses their weapon offensively? They are all for defense and for a good reason.

Cops are now routinely trained in offensive firearms use. To be specific, they are training essentially to hunt "active shooters." In other words, when the psycho gun nut goes to your local school, or mall, or workplace and walks casually through executing all of the people he feels wronged him, the police are now trained most places, to actively seek out and engage the bad guy. I guess in a round about way, it is both defensive and offensive.

We (in my state) are not required to identify ourselves, give commands, beg for you to drop your gun, etc. If you are actively shooting at or looking for innocent people shoot, we are authorized to seek you out and neutralize the threat. It is a result of the Columbine school shootings, because at that time, officers had been trained to sit outside and wait for SWAT teams. That is no longer the preferred response.

 

[AnthonyM83]

Walking into this one late, but I wouldn't have a problem with EMS being armed if they went through (at minimum) as extensive training as police officers go through. I say at minimum, because they'll probably need more education and refreshers, since they won't have ongoing field experience and coworker/DA discussions to supplement original training.

So, basically I'm saying only way I'd feel comfortable is if they had full police training (and background testing). SO, basically, if you're a cop, I'd be fine with it. Otherwise, you'd have no idea how much you have no idea about regarding issues on carrying on duty.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I could even see guns being used against each other in EMS. Look at the headlines we have had with battles between Fire and EMS that got physicial even at scene.

I can guarantee you that this would happen a lot less often if EMS was armed. Might make the Oklahoma State Police think twice before assaulting us too.

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

I believe some departments allow staff who are also employed elsewhere as LEO's to carry while on duty. And some Departments such as Shores are tri certified as firefighters, LEO's and Medics. but all in all i don't think mainstream EM providers need to be armed.