Self-Defense and EMS

[Hopeless Romantic]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

 

[medichopeful]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

I'm assuming that you are talking about if you are only acting as an EMT, correct? I would suggest that you retreat, radio, and re-evaluate. DO NOT TRY TO TAKE ON SOMEBODY WITH A KNIFE IF YOU ARE NOT ARMED AND TRAINED.

If you are responding as both an EMT and a LEO, that is a different case. Do what you are trained to do as a cop.

Basically, your reaction should depend on what your function is. If you are on duty as an EMT, do what your EMT training says to do (retreat). If you are on duty as a police officer, do what your police training says to do. If you are on duty as both an EMT and a LEO (and you are properly equipped), do what your police training says to do, as there is an immediate threat to life.

Listen to other's input as well.

 

[medichopeful]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

By the way, I would hope that the police would never do this. Once they are there, they should stay until you leave (in my opinion), as things can change rapidly.

 

[Akulahawk]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

If you're a LEO who is also an EMT who is providing care on scene and the above somehow managed to happen? You would already know the answer to the question as it would have been addressed in you LEO Academy. Here's a hint... you act as a cop...

If you're NOT a LEO and they're no longer on scene, you retreat, radio for help, let the LEO come back and handle the situation. Going toe to toe with someone armed with a knife and you without a weapon is an excellent way for you to get seriously injured or killed. You WILL get cut...

I do know a little more than the average bear on this one... and I'm not a cop.

 

[DT4EMS]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

Retreat, Retreat, Retreat!!!

That is even what we train an officer to do........ retreat to cover then, from COVER put rounds on target.

In EMS you leave.........period.

My hobby is Kali-Silat under Mas Guru P.Greg Alland....... in my own school we knife spar and even grapple with knives..... RETREAT!

Come see me at the EMS Expo in Atlanta I will help show how to retreat

Kip

 

[46Young]

Always have a means of egress. Don't let pts/bystanders linger in between you and the door. You and your partner should have a predetermined code word that you'll use if there's something of concern onscene and you want police summoned, but don't want anyone to know what you're doing. You can say to your partner "Do you mind running out to the rig to grab me a size 15 ETT?" Use something that you don't carry on the rig as a code word. Carry a large flashlight to use as a weapon if you're cornered. Otherwise, always try to run away. Don't get sued for striking someone. They're guaranteed to flip the story on you when the cops are there.

 

[berkeman]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

If you are (you're) a police officer and you are (you're) on scene, and the police left, how could you still be there?

 

[surname_levi]

haha i was playing in my head an EMT trying to take on someone with a knife and thinking "i was trained to do this"

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

So I just started my EMT class and in our last class we talked about the roles and responsibilities of an EMT. The first and most important one is your own safety. Then the safety of your crew. My question is if your a police officer and your on scene. The police left and for whatever reason a family member pulls out a knife, do you retreat, or do you handle the situation since you have been trained to handle this?

unless you're agency is dually or tri certified, you are either one or the other. The majority of EMS agencies that are not LE, do not permit employees to carry firearms whlie on duty. Even if you are employed elsewhere as a police officer, in the scenario you post, if you are not on duty as a LEO, you're not a police officer on that scene and should not act as one. As an unarmed EMT with police training, attempting to disarm a potential attacker, when you have the option of retreating is foolish, and should be considered as a last resort only. I would only fight if the knife welder posed an imminent life threat to myself, or my partner.
I never allow any patient, victim, anyone who is not in public safety between me and the exit. Never allow yourself to somehow be backed into a corner. no one should ever be between you and you're exit. Also if a patient is acting suspicious, you can't see they're hands i will ask them to come to me if the situation warrants it.
Remember it is not you're emergency, it is you're patients emergency. As long as you play it safe, excercise caution, there is no reason why you should not be going home safe every morning.

 

[Hopeless Romantic]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I've been training in martial arts for 5+ years and wanted to know how this would affect my situation should I ever be in it. Also, I am hoping to become a police officer after I graduate college and probably going to continue in EMS for a while.

Berkeman, to answer your question I was saying that I was responding as EMS, but my career was as a police officer.

 

[Akulahawk]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I've been training in martial arts for 5+ years and wanted to know how this would affect my situation should I ever be in it. Also, I am hoping to become a police officer after I graduate college and probably going to continue in EMS for a while.

Berkeman, to answer your question I was saying that I was responding as EMS, but my career was as a police officer.

You'll get all the proper training for that as a Police Officer, in the academy. Your Martial Arts will give you a wider range of options than the typical DTAC training... but you will be told what you are to do by agency policy.

 

[daedalus]

I would point out that Kip (DT4EMS) is our resident expert in self defense for EMS workers. He regularly teaches classes and speaks on the subject.

So, I will echo his advice. Retreat. Call PD.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

A very similar scenario happened to me recently. The ALS unit I was working on responded to a suicide attempt. The patient had tried to kill herself by slitting her wrists, but didn't do a very good job of it. When we got there, the police were out on the porch and the local volunteer ambulance crew was washing the patient's wrists off in the kitchen sink. All of a sudden, the patient picked up a knife (not a butter knife, a 10-inch steak knife) and almost got one of the EMT's in the stomach. Fortunately, they were able to restrain her until our shouting got the police to come back inside.

So yes, medichopeful, police DO do such things from time to time. Needless to say, I think a nasty-gram or two will be written as a result of the incident.

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

A very similar scenario happened to me recently. The ALS unit I was working on responded to a suicide attempt. The patient had tried to kill herself by slitting her wrists, but didn't do a very good job of it. When we got there, the police were out on the porch and the local volunteer ambulance crew was washing the patient's wrists off in the kitchen sink. All of a sudden, the patient picked up a knife (not a butter knife, a 10-inch steak knife) and almost got one of the EMT's in the stomach. Fortunately, they were able to restrain her until our shouting got the police to come back inside.

So yes, medichopeful, police DO do such things from time to time. Needless to say, I think a nasty-gram or two will be written as a result of the incident.

Is washing lacerations in the kitchen sink part of you're protocols?

 

[Sasha]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I've been training in martial arts for 5+ years and wanted to know how this would affect my situation should I ever be in it. Also, I am hoping to become a police officer after I graduate college and probably going to continue in EMS for a while.

Berkeman, to answer your question I was saying that I was responding as EMS, but my career was as a police officer.

If you are working as an EMT, you are working as an EMT. If you are working as a police officer, you are working as a police officer. You do not cross these professions. Ambulance companies didn't hire a cop, they hired an EMT and expect you to handle situations like an EMT, and as an EMT/Paramedic we are taught personal safety first. My personal safety is not towards the agressor, but away from it.

 

[medic417]

Just pull your concealed firearm and shoot them in self defense. Issue solved.

 

[medichopeful]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I've been training in martial arts for 5+ years and wanted to know how this would affect my situation should I ever be in it. Also, I am hoping to become a police officer after I graduate college and probably going to continue in EMS for a while.

Berkeman, to answer your question I was saying that I was responding as EMS, but my career was as a police officer.

Never, ever, EVER goes hands on with someone with a knife. It is a good way for you to end up dead or very seriously injured. If they attack you, try to get away. If worst comes to worst, do just enough to get away. Unless you are acting as a cop. THEN do what you are trained to do. But still, keep yourself safe.

 

[BruceD]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I've been training in martial arts for 5+ years and wanted to know how this would affect my situation should I ever be in it. Also, I am hoping to become a police officer after I graduate college and probably going to continue in EMS for a while.

Berkeman, to answer your question I was saying that I was responding as EMS, but my career was as a police officer.

Most martial artist instructors are very careful to instruct/show you to just how badly you can be hurt by even an unskilled assailant with a bladed weapon.

The defenses you are taught in class are not meant to be used if you can RUN AWAY, these moves are for last-ditch "save my (insert EMT-LIFE appropriate word for buttocks here)" situations.

Your #1 primary goal in your job is to get home to your family, they need a husband/father/mother/brother/sister not a newspaper article and a picture with the word 'hero' written under it.

Sorry for the long-winded response, I've just seen more than I want of knife vs unarmed.

Stay Safe
-B

PS. Just as a side note, be aware that a person with a knife is dangerous even at what most consider a 'safe' distance.

 

[Akulahawk]

Most martial artist instructors are very careful to instruct/show you to just how badly you can be hurt by even an unskilled assailant with a bladed weapon.

The defenses you are taught in class are not meant to be used if you can RUN AWAY, these moves are for last-ditch "save my (insert EMT-LIFE appropriate word for buttocks here)" situations.

Your #1 primary goal in your job is to get home to your family, they need a husband/father/mother/brother/sister not a newspaper article and a picture with the word 'hero' written under it.

Sorry for the long-winded response, I've just seen more than I want of knife vs unarmed.

Stay Safe
-B

PS. Just as a side note, be aware that a person with a knife is dangerous even at what most consider a 'safe' distance.

I've done the Tueller drill... 21 feet really is the minimum distance needed to be able to recognize the blade threat, draw, and fire. If someone has a blade out, and is threatening me or my family... and I'm armed... and they're within 21 feet... I'm going to seriously consider shooting them to stop that threat. My actions will be determined by the person who is armed. I can very easily articulate my training and experience to that effect in court...

That being said... again, once the OP has gone to an academy, he'll learn what he'll need to do in those situations. Especially since the situation he's positing is that of a LEO who is working EMS... as a LEO...

 

[fiddlesticks]

Ha get the hell out of there #1 in rule in ems i like me best then my partner so yeah dont even think of taking on a nut bag with a knife.