Rant about how much volunteers are hurting our profession

[medic417]

So there's not a single volunteer that is there for the patient? Are you sure about that?
.

Way to take it out of context. I was replying to her statement that vollys are better so I showed how it could also be reversed. Guess I stepped on your toes to.

 

[emtgurl21]

I not sure about the states your from, but in the state of Arkansas there alot of rural communties and most ems and fire personal live in the rural areas and commute to work. Most of the rural areas do not have ambulances, so the ambulances that do respond from the bigger towns have a 30 min response time or more. So the volunteers in most of these areas can get there and start providing care. If it werent for the volunteers the outcome could be worse. And the last time i checked the reason we come emts and paramedics is to help people not draw a check.

 

[medic417]

. Maybe EMS needs to establish some tradition and gain some sort of sense of brotherhood first. .

Actually that holds EMS back more than vollys do. We do to much based on tradition rather than scientific proof.

 

[scottyb]

Actually that holds EMS back more than vollys do. We do to much based on tradition rather than scientific proof.

Please provide an Example? Here in NY, our protocols are always changing. Yes, as a volly, I am promptly trained on those changes. These changes keep us update as best they can with the best patient care while staying within our scope of practice.

 

[medic417]

Please provide an Example? Here in NY, our protocols are always changing. Yes, as a volly, I am promptly trained on those changes. These changes keep us update as best they can with the best patient care while staying within our scope of practice.

Do you still back board? Do you still place shock patients in the "shock position"? That is just two quick examples. Many more of our practices nationwide have no scientific merit.

 

[scottyb]

Do you still back board? Do you still place shock patients in the "shock position"? That is just two quick examples. Many more of our practices nationwide have no scientific merit.

This must be due to the stupid vollies and them not wanting change. We are apparently to busy trying to ruin your career to learn new protocols. OR, our state has not changed it. So the MD's in charge of emergency medicine in NYS DOH decided not to change it. That is clearly our fault. Sorry to be the anchor that is dragging down your overly buoyant intellect.

Maybe we should train all medics to the MD level and carry some diagnostic equipment, like x-rays and CAT's so we don't have to go through the frivolous practice of trying to maintain spinal integrity as best we can in a dynamic environment of an emergency scene.

Or you can be just accept the fact that not everybody can be a paid paramedic and is gonna do the best they can within their training. If our state DOH really thought it was not beneficial to backboard any more. I am sure they would. They just recently changed the protocol for immobilization. Allowing for us to skip the immobilization if there is no suspicion of a spinal injury.

From the state training I received for the change:

When using the Suspected Spinal Injury protocol, a positive mechanism of injury is not considered means to necessitate full immobilization …
BUT…
should be used as a historical component that may heighten a provider’s suspicion for a spinal cord injury.

I know you are gonna key in on the "historical part to try to prove your point. You can't equate, I don't think, a protocol based on historical data of injuries incurred via a given MOI with tradition that is holding back EMS.

Sorry, as an EMT-B in NY, the shock position is pretty much all I got. I know that it is shown not

 

[medic417]

This must be due to the stupid vollies and them not wanting change. We are apparently to busy trying to ruin your career to learn new protocols. OR, our state has not changed it. So the MD's in charge of emergency medicine in NYS DOH decided not to change it. That is clearly our fault. Sorry to be the anchor that is dragging down your overly buoyant intellect.

Dudette chill out. You said EMS needed tradition and I said it was more the problem than Vollys. You asked for proof now you throw a tantrum.

As to needing equipment for selective spinal immobilization all you need is education. It is implemented and has been proven to work in the field.

 

[scottyb]

Dudette chill out. You said EMS needed tradition and I said it was more the problem than Vollys. You asked for proof now you throw a tantrum.

As to needing equipment for selective spinal immobilization all you need is education. It is implemented and has been proven to work in the field.

You attack me with you internet hit on the way out comment and then you don't understand why I am upset. I just showed you that we have selective immobilization. I didn't mean tradition in care or practice, but in how you carry yourself and having respect for those that came before you and paved the way. You could try to accept vollies as equals and blame the system instead of trying to put us down as inferior care givers. And it is DUDE. Try not let the normal gender of the name Scott kick your butt. Could we expect you not to feel attacked in a thread if it was just about bashing paid guys.

 

[medic417]

You attack me with you internet hit on the way out comment and then you don't understand why I am upset. I just showed you that we have selective immobilization. I didn't mean tradition in care or practice, but in how you carry yourself and having respect for those that came before you and paved the way. You could try to accept vollies as equals and blame the system instead of trying to put us down as inferior care givers. And it is DUDE. Try not let the normal gender of the name Scott kick your butt. Could we expect you not to feel attacked in a thread if it was just about bashing paid guys.

Was no attack, you complained despite having read the title. If you don't want to read don't click.

So you want me as a long time person in EMS to accept the hazing traditions. The pranks that have harmed many. And no vollys are not are history paid funeral homes are our tradition.

Yes we should know our history. In fact any that fail to know their history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. HMMM seems we keep seeing the same mistakes happening in EMS decade after decade. Maybe you new people need to listen to us old farts.

You are welcome to make a rant against paid in fact it would be more appropriate than hijacking my thread. In fact per the mods recent notice you technically should get a warning for this hijack.

And I have started a post that shows how any service can go paid.

 

[scottyb]

Was no attack, you complained despite having read the title. If you don't want to read don't click.

So you want me as a long time person in EMS to accept the hazing traditions. The pranks that have harmed many. And no vollys are not are history paid funeral homes are our tradition.

Yes we should know our history. In fact any that fail to know their history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. HMMM seems we keep seeing the same mistakes happening in EMS decade after decade. Maybe you new people need to listen to us old farts.

You are welcome to make a rant against paid in fact it would be more appropriate than hijacking my thread. In fact per the mods recent notice you technically should get a warning for this hijack.

And I have started a post that shows how any service can go paid.

Hijack your thread? So now actively discussing a topic you started is considered hijacking. I am saying goodbye. Go ahead and warn me. I won't be returning to a site that allows discussion as long as you don't rock the boat. Volunteers in all capacities are what keep this country going. Keep talking down to them. Without volunteers this country would grind to a halt in many respects.

 

[FireResuce48]

See, here's where I think the difficulties lie, the problem I have isn't with volunteers, they have way more dedication and drive then I do. I don't think that I would do this for free. That being said, my issue isn't with the volunteers dedication, training, motivation or desire. There are volunteers that are slackers, but there are career personnel that are slackers as well, the difference is that the volunteers aren't paid, the career slackers are stealing from the system. My issue is simply that there are fewer groups abused more than EMS volunteers. "They don't have enough money for the paid firefighters/emts they have." If enough people die, local government will find the money, either to pay lawsuits, or they will decide to be proactive. I've been able to work with volunteers who are very well trained, so I don't think the system has been dragged down for them. I think the system has been brought to lowest common denominator for several reasons, to blame that only on volunteers lacks factual evidence. I'd also like to clarify that I don't see volunteers as a "worthless job stealing tick" but rather the victims in a game where someone is trying to get something for nothing. I appreciate all the volunteers that I work with, and I tell them the same thing. In my opinion, "They are being taken advantage of."

I just don't appreciate people trying to me that my station and its members are stealing jobs. We provide a service to our community with agreesive firefighting and up to date ems tactics.
I don't think the county goverment is finding any money to pay anybody to staff anything anytime soon. They owe a bunch of money in back pay cause of furloughing. And we have a bit of corruption going on up top.

Volunteering is something I will always do even when I do get hired onto a paid department.

 

[rescue99]

Volunteers in all capacities are what keep this country going. Keep talking down to them. Without volunteers this country would grind to a halt in many respects.[/QUOTE]

He's right. Volunteerism is a lot of what makes this country so great.

 

[46Young]

Volunteers in all capacities are what keep this country going. Keep talking down to them. Without volunteers this country would grind to a halt in many respects.

He's right. Volunteerism is a lot of what makes this country so great.[/QUOTE]

Amen! Well put.

 

[46Young]

To the OP, it sounds like you could really use a union to force a wage increase. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I can see that your organization being "at will" is really working out for you.

All you can do is rant on the internet, as you and your fellow employees appear powerless to cause any positive change to the situation. Given your poor attitude towards volunteers, I don't feel sorry for you in the least.

 

[medic417]

To the OP, it sounds like you could really use a union to force a wage increase. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I can see that your organization being "at will" is really working out for you.

All you can do is rant on the internet, as you and your fellow employees appear powerless to cause any positive change to the situation. Given your poor attitude towards volunteers, I don't feel sorry for you in the least.

Actually I work for one of the highest paying services in the USA when you include benefits and cost of living. So no union is going to do anything but hurt us like it has you.

The vollys keep the area services from getting better pay. If a union moved in you would still have low pay plus another monthly payment so actually you would lose money.

 

[medic417]

Hijack your thread? So now actively discussing a topic you started is considered hijacking. I am saying goodbye. Go ahead and warn me. I won't be returning to a site that allows discussion as long as you don't rock the boat. Volunteers in all capacities are what keep this country going. Keep talking down to them. Without volunteers this country would grind to a halt in many respects.

Again bye, thought I already told you bye before. If you do not want to read my opinion you should not click a discussion that makes it clear it is what I am going to discuss. You were welcome to make a counter rant elsewhere but you are not supposed to hijack a thread as I have been warned not to do thus my rant subject. If they allow you to hijack my thread they have to let me hijack any thread I want to, that won't happen.

 

[46Young]

Actually I work for one of the highest paying services in the USA when you include benefits and cost of living. So no union is going to do anything but hurt us like it has you.

The vollys keep the area services from getting better pay. If a union moved in you would still have low pay plus another monthly payment so actually you would lose money.

how exactly has our union hurt us? I'm puzzled by that statement.

If a union moved in they would require management to change your current situation for the better through a contract.

In the same post you stated that you work for one of the highest paying services in the USA, but you'll still have low pay if a union moves in? Once again, if you feel that you deserve higher wages, and management is using the volunteer excuse, you're powerless to change that without collective bargaining. Explain to me why I'm wrong about that, if you can. If you and your fellow employees wre able to cause any change, you'd have your wage increase and this thread would never exist. Strength in Solidarity!

Also, have you worked for a union shop? You seem to be thoroughly convinced that a union will ruin your agency, but you offer no plausible reasons as to why.

 

[medic417]

how exactly has our union hurt us? I'm puzzled by that statement.

If a union moved in they would require management to change your current situation for the better through a contract.

.

Please start a union thread rather than hijacking everyone elses threads.

 

[scottyb]

how exactly has our union hurt us? I'm puzzled by that statement.

If a union moved in they would require management to change your current situation for the better through a contract.

In the same post you stated that you work for one of the highest paying services in the USA, but you'll still have low pay if a union moves in? Once again, if you feel that you deserve higher wages, and management is using the volunteer excuse, you're powerless to change that without collective bargaining. Explain to me why I'm wrong about that, if you can. If you and your fellow employees wre able to cause any change, you'd have your wage increase and this thread would never exist. Strength in Solidarity!

Also, have you worked for a union shop? You seem to be thoroughly convinced that a union will ruin your agency, but you offer no plausible reasons as to why.

Be careful. Arguing against them is futile, and will be labeled as hijacking as now you are talking about unions. They are right. Let them have their thread to bad talk the vollies. I came here to learn and discuss EMS topics, actual techniques and perspectives. That is all I am going to do from now on.

 

[medic417]

Be careful. Arguing against them is futile, and will be labeled as hijacking as now you are talking about unions. They are right. Let them have their thread to bad talk the vollies. I came here to learn and discuss EMS topics, actual techniques and perspectives. That is all I am going to do from now on.

Again feel free to make your topic as the rules say to do. Welcome back again.